Fluids for a 2005 BMW 325i

The Critic · Mar 17, 2005

Hi,
Please recommend an appropriate Differential and Automatic Transmission Fluid for the 2005 BMW 325i with the 5-Speed Steptronic Automatic Transmission. I'm not entirely sure, but doesn't the AT require a fluid meeting the Esso LT 71141 spec? Wouldn't any synthetic ATF work?

BTW, BMW325i.NET suggested that after installing Redline D4 ATF, their transmission did shift much smoother. However, the 325i that they were talking about was a 2002.

For the:

ATF- I was thinking Amsoil Universal ATF or Redline D4 ATF. Wouldn't the Amsoil or the Redline be an appropriate replacement Esso LT 71141 Spec?

Differential- Amsoil Severe Gear 75W-90

Thanks

Michael

TooSlick · Mar 17, 2005

The BMW ATF is significantly thinner than the Amsoil synthetic ATF (about 5-6 Cst @ 100C, vs 7.2 Cst for Amsoil) - you can't use Amsoil in these German auto transmissions.

I'd check with Amsoil tech services on the differential application.

TS

JHZR2 · Mar 18, 2005

I am of the opinion that in non-standard applications (i.e. NOT GM and ford, maybe chrysler transmissions), that you should use the OE fluid. For example, toyotas use a special fluid, hondas use a special fluid and so on. This is becoming more and moreso with the manual shift autos, the higher gear autos (6-7sp, CVT), etc.

If it isnt specced for dexron III, then get the OE fluid from the dealer. If theyre going to give you a fluid that you can buy at autozone, then walk away, otherwise buy it.

As for the diff, you need a fluid similar to castrol XJ. This is the fluid in use at all BMW dealers. It is a newer fluid, originally put into M5 and M roadster LSD untis, but now used everywhere. XJ fluid is actually a 75w-140 fluid.

You can see the TSB here:

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e32/forum.php?postid=956159&page=1

So XJ is the replacement for ALL BMW diff oils. While I used redline 75w-90 in my 91's LSD unit, and it worked OK, the heavier oils (castrol XJ and redline 75w-140) tended to produce the same economy and less noise from the diff.

BMW diffs tend to devellop a whine after a while. Lack of maintenance tends to cause it the worst, but IMO, xw-90 diff oils also cause it as well. I am of the opinion that if you take your car to a BMW dealer, they will put in XJ fluid into your diff. So youre geting the heavier fluid that is reccomended. Redline or amsoil may very well be better, but Id probably stay along the guidelines of the viscosity range.

Im not saying that 75w-90 changed regularly will give bad results, accelerated wear, etc. In fact, BM probably just wants to simplify logistics and make more money by only havng to source one diff oil at their dealers. I just tend to agree with the guidance to use XJ in all diffs (which my dealer verified that they do, regardless of if you bring in a new car or an old 2002), based upon my experience with my BMW.

A 2005 BMW should have dealer maintenance for free, and BMW typically uses good fluids anyway. I wouldnt go out wasting time or money to change them, at least at this point in the car's life. Youre just throwing money away, IMO.

JMH

[ March 18, 2005, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: JHZR2 ]

Ken2 · Mar 19, 2005

Michael,
Contact the oil maker directly. I know Red Line won't recommend one of their products if they don't know that it will be OK. Red Line has told me that their D4 is suitable in newer Volvo and VW transmissions, but to wait until after the warranty period, because the OEM fluid does not have the usual red dye and D4 is red. The dealership would know that you used a non-approved fluid.

Ken

unDummy · Mar 20, 2005

Any synthetic will not work. I wouldn't use Mobil 1 ATF.

You can use either the Amsoil or Redline ATF's.

I've seen a spec sheet of LT71141 showing a cst of 7.3 which is just about the same as any other ATF excluding the thin Mercon-SP truck ATF.

Its time to rebel against the OEM proprietary lame quality lifetime fluids that are overpriced. Its also time to take a stand against the bogus fear of losing the warranty.

Mickey_M · Mar 20, 2005

quote:

Michael Wan:
Please recommend an appropriate .... Automatic Transmission Fluid for the 2005 BMW 325i with the 5-Speed Steptronic Automatic Transmission. I'm not entirely sure, but doesn't the AT require a fluid meeting the Esso LT 71141 spec? Wouldn't any synthetic ATF work? ....

Take a look at:

http://www.jie.com/oilref.htm

If you have a green tag ZF transmission, it takes Esso LT 71141. If you have a black tag, it takes Shell LA 2634. The GM transmissions take Dexron.

There are other manufacturers using the same basic transmissions, Mercedes for example, and their oils also meet these specifications.

In Europe ExxonMobil offers compatible ATFs, but I don't see them listed in the U.S..

The Mobil 1 synthetic does not meet either the black tag or green tag requirements.

.

JHZR2 · Mar 20, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by unDummy:
I've seen a spec sheet of LT71141 showing a cst of 7.3 which is just about the same as any other ATF excluding the thin Mercon-SP truck ATF.

Its time to rebel against the OEM proprietary lame quality lifetime fluids that are overpriced. Its also time to take a stand against the bogus fear of losing the warranty.

Its not a matter of rebelling, price gouging, or any other matter. Its a matter of availability and realized quality of the fluid.

MANY people praise honda MTL and use it in all sorts of different cars. Its relatiely inexpensive and works great in MANY applications. Similar results for GM/pennzoil synchromesh fluid. It has been viewed to be the best fluid for numerous transmissions. Both are easy to find, inexpensive and work really well.

A BMW fluid for a specifically designed transmission has special needs and requirements. Only testing or knowing the engineering documents specifying the actual fluid requirements tells you that. Sure, people could do trial and error, buy all sorts of different fluids or whatever... but consider the time and cost of doing this. Thats why they designed specifications and companies test fluids to them. On a nice, new car, you want to ensure that the specs are met, not only because its a new car and you want the warranty, but because you dont want to be a guinea pig in a nice car. So going with OE fluids tend to ensure high quality and proper compatibility. And, for non-us cars, OE fluids offer availability not always offered for an actually tested and verified fluid to meet a certain spec. Fluids can improve on and surpass specs, but that needs to be verified by testing and proof. Good luck finding that easily for MANY apps.

JMH

BenDarDunDat · Apr 9, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by JHZR2:
I am of the opinion that in non-standard applications (i.e. NOT GM and ford, maybe chrysler transmissions), that you should use the OE fluid. For example, toyotas use a special fluid, hondas use a special fluid and so on. This is becoming more and moreso with the manual shift autos, the higher gear autos (6-7sp, CVT), etc.

If it isnt specced for dexron III, then get the OE fluid from the dealer. If theyre going to give you a fluid that you can buy at autozone, then walk away, otherwise buy it.

As for the diff, you need a fluid similar to castrol XJ. This is the fluid in use at all BMW dealers. It is a newer fluid, originally put into M5 and M roadster LSD untis, but now used everywhere. XJ fluid is actually a 75w-140 fluid.

You can see the TSB here:

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e32/forum.php?postid=956159&page=1

So XJ is the replacement for ALL BMW diff oils. While I used redline 75w-90 in my 91's LSD unit, and it worked OK, the heavier oils (castrol XJ and redline 75w-140) tended to produce the same economy and less noise from the diff.

BMW diffs tend to devellop a whine after a while. Lack of maintenance tends to cause it the worst, but IMO, xw-90 diff oils also cause it as well. I am of the opinion that if you take your car to a BMW dealer, they will put in XJ fluid into your diff. So youre geting the heavier fluid that is reccomended. Redline or amsoil may very well be better, but Id probably stay along the guidelines of the viscosity range.

Im not saying that 75w-90 changed regularly will give bad results, accelerated wear, etc. In fact, BM probably just wants to simplify logistics and make more money by only havng to source one diff oil at their dealers. I just tend to agree with the guidance to use XJ in all diffs (which my dealer verified that they do, regardless of if you bring in a new car or an old 2002), based upon my experience with my BMW.

A 2005 BMW should have dealer maintenance for free, and BMW typically uses good fluids anyway. I wouldnt go out wasting time or money to change them, at least at this point in the car's life. Youre just throwing money away, IMO.

JMH

Uh, late to the party but you are incorrect. SAF-XO is STILL the spec fluid for NON LS BMW diffs. (75W90 synth) The TSB you reference speaks to multi-disc LIMITED SLIP units, no tthe common open ones.

getzmo · Apr 28, 2005

Why would you change the fluids yourself. I thought that when you buy a BMW it comes with standard maintennance including fluid changes until the warranty expires.
Since yours is an 05 then you are still covered. Right?

ediamiam · Apr 28, 2005

I think Michael W. has a tendency of posting on vehicles that he does not own. It may be from venturing onto other car forums, discerning their requests, problems and then gleaning that info from bitog and reporting back on the other site. I recall he has posted on a BMW suv type, Acura TL, perhaps others. If I am wrong, my apologies. I think it would be more appropriate to direct these others to bitog, such that they can ask their own questions, and reply to any from here.

JackSprat01 · Apr 28, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by ediamiam:
I think Michael W. has a tendency of posting on vehicles that he does not own. It may be from venturing onto other car forums, discerning their requests, problems and then gleaning that info from bitog and reporting back on the other site. I recall he has posted on a BMW suv type, Acura TL, perhaps others. If I am wrong, my apologies. I think it would be more appropriate to direct these others to bitog, such that they can ask their own questions, and reply to any from here.

You are wrong and you should apologize. Tribology is a science...something we study and try to learn more about. I also study astronomy but I don't OWN the universe...are you going to disparage me??? Michael gathers information from many different sources and puts them together in a way that ends up being more valuable than narrow-minded schmucks that study ONLY what they own. He has every right to post on any cars he chooses. Those of some of us on Acura forums and others may have very valuable information that we would never spare the time to share here on BITOG. You should be THANKING Michael and maybe you'll become a fraction as valuable to this forum as he is.

Fluids for a 2005 BMW 325i

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