Flight to Jackson Hole diverted after pilot certification issue

y_p_w

y_p_w

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Not quite sure what it was other than the pilot apparently said something about not being "qualified" to land the plane at the airport, which departed from SFO in an Embraer ERJ 175. Now I've been to Grand Teton National Park and drove by the airport, which is in a spectacular area with the most amazing scenery. But I suppose it's at high altitude with mountains all around. The airline hasn't really said what the issue was, but here are a few articles that try to explain it. Might have been because the weather got bad or something like that?

https://viewfromthewing.com/alaska-...-confession-not-qualified-to-land-this-plane/
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2024/0...-jackson-airport-because-pilot-not-qualified/

I found the Flightaware profiles, which separate it into SFO-SLC, then SLC-JAC.

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA3491/history/20240808/1603Z/KSFO/KSLC
https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA3491/history/20240808/1553Z/KSLC/KJAC

Anyone ever flown in there before. Maybe just as a passenger?
 
Maybe a Pilot could chime in here. There are a couple of certifications required here-at this airport that are not required elsewhere-from what I read. It's not like the Pilot really couldn't land a plane-not just here at this destination.

Good conversation fodder on here-but much to do about nothing....
 
I am not commenting on the Alaskan flight but new Captains require 300 hours as Captain up here in Canada before they can legally conduct certain instrument approaches in very low ceiling and visibility conditions.

I get called in to cover flights that new Captains were originally assigned in their monthly schedule but the weather is bad and they don’t have their 300 hours yet, they can’t fly there and another Captain has to do that flight.

Usually it involves flying into St. John’s, Newfoundland ( Category 3 ILS approach ).
 
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Jackson Hole is one of many airports that are considered “special qualification.”

Special qualification airports are those that have any, or all, of the following factors, unusual, terrain, unusual approach procedures, short runway.

SFO is special qualification because of the terrain and procedures, some of which are unique.

Eagle Colorado is another. High elevation, and severe terrain surrounds it. Bogota is another. There are many. They are enumerated in our Flight operations manual.

A Captain must receive a “supervised” entry into a special qualification airport on their first time in there. That means that an instructor, a line check pilot, like me, is sitting in the right seat, to ensure that they have a full and complete understanding of the unique procedures, and unique challenges of that particular airport. Just to get into Eagle on the very steep approach over the mountains, requires configuring the airplane for landing several times farther out than you would ordinarily do. It is a drag and energy management challenge.

Further, if you have to go around, or you lose an engine on takeoff, the procedures are complex, and there are some very good techniques on how to set up the Flight management system to affectively deal with those challenges.

The Airlines scheduling department should have caught this, and they should not have assigned an unqualified captain to the flight. It’s possible that a new scheduler didn’t know to check for that qualification in the pilots training record. Those sorts of things happen.

But, ultimately, the captain should’ve known that.

They should’ve known that when they first got the paperwork and realized that they were going to Jackson Hole.

It’s hard to believe that somebody was so sloppy that they didn’t discover they were unqualified for the flight until halfway through. That’s what appears to have happened.
 
wwillson said:
You should see the Instrument Approach Procedure for Eagle, CO. It will bend your mind. If I ever fly into Eagle, I want @Astro14 or @Just a civilian pilot are at the helm. I want my captain to be extremely experienced and extremely safety conscious.

[edit] - this is the LDA approach for Eagle. Let you mind absorb this.

https://www.flightaware.com/resources/airport/EGE/IAP/LDA+RWY+25/pdf
Click to expand...

Yeah, Eagle is an LDA, a localizer type directional aid. It is not an ILS.

You do not arrive on centerline. The approach is angled off to the north to keep you clear of a mountain that’s on final just to the south.

The approach is very steep. And drag Management plays a significant role, because the airplane is at such a high true airspeed.

If you think that is complicated, you should see the engine out procedure…
 
c502cid said:
Just before I saw this I'm like if EGE is on the list than sure as can be ASE must be on it! Thanks for this, it's a very interesting list for those who fly almost everyday and aren't an airline employee.

The notes for Bagram in Afghanistan are pretty wild!
Click to expand...
To be honest, as an AIRLINE pilot, I don't understand what the extra concern is with some of these airports on the list.

Nothing special or tricky about flying into KBTV ( Burlington, Vermont ).

2 ILS, radar approach control.

The Green Mountains are not a threat unless you don't respect normal IFR approach Altitudes and many airlines prohibit ( mine ) night visual approaches at "mountain airports" unless given radar vectors to intercept final approach. We CAN fly charted, night visuals at mountain airports.

Many airlines also have their own in-house RBN ( route briefing notes ) that BOTH ( CA and FO ) pilots are supposed to read before flying to ANY airport.
 
Just a civilian pilot said:
To be honest, as an AIRLINE pilot, I don't understand what the extra concern is with some of these airports on the list.

Nothing special or tricky about flying into KBTV ( Burlington, Vermont ).

2 ILS, radar approach control.

The Green Mountains are not a threat unless you don't respect normal IFR approach Altitudes and many airlines prohibit ( mine ) night visual approaches at "mountain airports" unless given radar vectors to intercept final approach. We CAN fly charted, night visuals at mountain airports.

Many airlines also have their own in-house RBN ( route briefing notes ) that BOTH ( CA and FO ) pilots are supposed to read before flying to ANY airport.
Click to expand...
The specific issue with Burlington is the proximity to a mountain known as “Camels Hump”. That peak sits right on the extended centerline of 5 for arrival, and 23 for departure, with rising terrain as you go southeast towards the Green Mountains.

I don’t see anything particularly challenging about that airport, and there are certainly much more challenging airports in the US system. I wonder if perhaps that one made the list because somebody flew into terrain one night…
 
Astro14 said:
The specific issue with Burlington is the proximity to a mountain known as “Camels Hump”. That peak sits right on the extended centerline of 5 for arrival, and 23 for departure, with rising terrain as you go southeast towards the Green Mountains.

I don’t see anything particularly challenging about that airport, and there are certainly much more challenging airports in the US system. I wonder if perhaps that one made the list because somebody flew into terrain one night…
Click to expand...

I don’ fly there anymore, I used to, every night, during my night freight flying days ( EWR as well ).

We only use it as an alternate for Montreal at times.

We are not allowed to depart ( e.g problem with IFR delays departing ) VFR, or cancel IFR ( to avoid delays getting in ) at night in any airspace we have to adhere to the minimum safe IFR published altitudes.
 
Astro14 said:
The specific issue with Burlington is the proximity to a mountain known as “Camels Hump”. That peak sits right on the extended centerline of 5 for arrival, and 23 for departure, with rising terrain as you go southeast towards the Green Mountains.

I don’t see anything particularly challenging about that airport, and there are certainly much more challenging airports in the US system. I wonder if perhaps that one made the list because somebody flew into terrain one night…
Click to expand...
Wasn't that the airport where they recently found, in a lake, the flight that disappeared 20 or 30 years ago?
 
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