Indian Ocean has very, VERY low satellite coverage. There is no real estate there that is interesting from a security aspect for militaries etc., to have it covered, and there is no nothing to be of business interest.
Flight documents show MH370 was ‘buried in an ocean trench by pilot’, says Boeing expert
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Owen Lucas
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What I mean is there are probably organizations with all kinds if resources and intel that know what happened but they can't say anything as that would risk or expose operational security and methods. That's understandable and in the big picture this is a non -event compared to geo politics.
Very often these things are very simple.
Indian Ocean has surface area 1.5 million square miles larger than Russia. Don’t forget that Steve Fosset’s airplane was found after a year, by an accident, in Neveda. And there was exhaustive search for his airplane by CAP, National Guard, state police from CA and NV, volunteers, Google, Amazon, Breitling,Branson/Virgin etc.
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Hi.
Some questions if i may Astro.
Is 3000kg a significant amount of extra fuel for a 777 on that particular journey?
Would the extra 3000kg of fuel that the Captain asked for go unquestioned at the time? Would his first officer have queried this and would Malaysian Airlines HQ been aware of this request in real time?
Thank you.
Some questions if i may Astro.
Is 3000kg a significant amount of extra fuel for a 777 on that particular journey?
Would the extra 3000kg of fuel that the Captain asked for go unquestioned at the time? Would his first officer have queried this and would Malaysian Airlines HQ been aware of this request in real time?
Thank you.
GON
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Not to challenge what you posted but thought to share a story and a link.
Last year, the 82nd Airborne did a joint air insertion (parachutes) from US Military Base Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. The air insertion demonstrated that the US could insert/ project ground forces into Asia not only from Alaska, Hawaii, and Guam- but from a completely different region (Indian Ocean). Diego Garcia is also identified as location to support operations in Africa.
Pacific Air Forces, AMC Deliver Over 600 US Army, Royal Thai Army Jumpers
JOINT BASE PEARL HARBOR-HICKAM, Hawaii -- Team Hickam successfully led a personnel drop operation while in an eight-ship formation on Mar. 3, 2023, during one of the largest multilateral theater
www.pacom.mil
Ok, and? What that has to do with coverage of ocean? That is one training exercise. You move assets to accomplish mission. To catch what happened to MH370 you must have 24/7 coverage of parts of ocean that no one has any interest in.Not to challenge what you posted but thought to share a story and a link.
Last year, the 82nd Airborne did a joint air insertion (parachutes) from US Military Base Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. The air insertion demonstrated that the US could insert/ project ground forces into Asia not only from Alaska, Hawaii, and Guam- but from a completely different region (Indian Ocean). Diego Garcia is also identified as location to support operations in Africa.
Pacific Air Forces, AMC Deliver Over 600 US Army, Royal Thai Army Jumpers
JOINT BASE PEARL HARBOR-HICKAM, Hawaii -- Team Hickam successfully led a personnel drop operation while in an eight-ship formation on Mar. 3, 2023, during one of the largest multilateral theaterwww.pacom.mil
Again, we have superb coverage of continental US, etc, and yet, we could not locate Steve Fosset’s airplane that did not sink for a year.
GON
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I thought your comment was that the Indian Ocean didn't have military value.
Without a doubt, Diego Garcia and the Indian Ocean does fully support strategic, operational, and tactical activities as it allows projection of forces into Asia from a different avenue of approach. Billions are spent annually to operate Diego Garcia. US is not going to let Diego Garcia be unprotected from Space.
No, there is no value in the Indian Ocean to have it covered, except for some small parts that do actually have some value for force projection. But in the grand scheme of things, considering the size of the Ocean, that is not substantial coverage. The US won't cover the whole ocean because of the military base. Immediate security of the base is one thing; covering something on a 24/7 basis some 2,000 miles away is something completely different.
Of course, there is some coverage of that ocean. India, Australia, etc. they all have their own interests to cover certain parts. Yet, you are still left with a huge water area that does not have any. And add to that that just because you have some coverage does not mean those types of satellites will catch anything. Inmarsat had some data, but it proved not that useful.
I'm pulling a John Madden and sticking to wheels on the ground. Too afraid to fly, Boeing window/door issue, some guy unalives himself recently...I'll stay on the ground.
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I don’t have a dog in the fight, nor do purport to be an expert, but I thought this take was interesting:
Everything about this plane and what info has been put out is a joke.
Maybe not air route control systems, though they are tied into it, every square meter or foot on the surface of the earth is scanned by radar, as well as optical-ish, 4D Imaging-ish, radar, all from satellites. Also most of the oceans floors have been planted with listening devices.
So someone somewhere knows what happened to that plane.
Maybe not air route control systems, though they are tied into it, every square meter or foot on the surface of the earth is scanned by radar, as well as optical-ish, 4D Imaging-ish, radar, all from satellites. Also most of the oceans floors have been planted with listening devices.
So someone somewhere knows what happened to that plane.
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Wait, WHAT???
I want to know more about radar. Some of my friends here in Colorado Springs would like to know more.
Also, we know more about Moon than oceans.
There are listening devices on the ocean floor, but not “most of the floors”. It’s very difficult to string listening devices on the ocean floor. Parts of the Atlantic are over 10,000 feet deep, for example, and it’s not smooth terrain.
So, nations with those devices (which is basically the US) tend to place them where they do the most good - like the GIUK gap - where we can listen for Russian submarines coming and going. It’s a very small part of particular oceans and seas (like the Baltic) where we, or anyone else, have sensors.
Most of the oceans floors are not monitored.
It serves no tactical purpose to have them on the floor of the Indian Ocean. Millions of square miles with mountainous terrain, as it is, would be nearly impossible to monitor, and our adversaries aren’t conducting operations there.
The radar picture is similar - we put them where they serve a purpose. There are large parts of the globe that are not under radar surveillance, by anyone. The Indian Ocean is among those parts.
So, the real “joke” is believing that every square foot of the Earth is monitored, or able to be monitored.
That is simply not true.
I know for a fact, the best monitoring of earth is from satellites.
I was working on tech for monitoring air breathing aircraft from space in the mid 1980's.
Do I know anything about MH370?
Nope. Zip. I would like to read about this pilot. Good link for that? Please.
I was working on tech for monitoring air breathing aircraft from space in the mid 1980's.
Do I know anything about MH370?
Nope. Zip. I would like to read about this pilot. Good link for that? Please.
It is a known fact, that technology that exists is way more advanced than we are told.
The Sats won't be just focused on many little areas, it would take a huge sweep or picture of thousands of square miles at once.
All the data would be stored for later retrieval if needed.
Again someone some where knows where that plane is.
The Sats won't be just focused on many little areas, it would take a huge sweep or picture of thousands of square miles at once.
All the data would be stored for later retrieval if needed.
Again someone some where knows where that plane is.
There is little doubt that there is some truly next level tech out there - well beyond what most people know or have been told about, but I think that you may be overselling it a bit here. I would be truly surprised if every square meter above and below surface has been mapped and even if it has and the crash has been recorded, then someone or more correctly teams of someones would have to spend enormous amounts of time to try find what amounts to a single celled organism in a haystack. Do you have any idea of how mind blowingly huge an ocean is? Good luck.
Owen Lucas
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To be able to monitor an entire ocean daily at the resolution fine enough to spot an airplane or wreckage would require a ginormous amount of storage and transmission capacity.
We are talking about probably 2 - 4 petabytes (1000 TB = 1PB) of data every day if you use the entire Google maps archive of 20PB as a benchmark.
Can a satellite even transmit 2-4 PB in a day?
My ideal way of finding a plane crash in the middle of nowhere would be using infrared detection satellites designed for IR emissions. Presuming these satellites are just looking everywhere all of the time, then having a fiery blip in the Indian Ocean might pique some interest or set off some kind of warning or task for who ever runs these things, NORAD maybe?
"Although SBIRS was designed primarily for missile defense purposes, its short- and mid-wave IR sensors can detect any significant infrared event on the globe, including explosions, fires, and plane crashes. SBIRS provides satellite IR data on thousands of non-missile related events every year. The National Air and Space Intelligence Center keeps “a catalog of signatures—electromagnetic and IR—of aircraft, missiles and other military hardware operating globally.” This can be used to understand what’s going on in crowded operational theaters where there are many actors at play."
Space-based Infrared System (SBIRS) | Missile Threat
The Space-based Infrared System (SBIRS) is a constellation of integrated satellites in geosynchronous orbit (GEO) and high elliptical orbit (HEO) and ground-based data processing and command and control centers. This system is designed to provide early missile warning, cue missile defenses...
missilethreat.csis.org
"The search resumed at 6:15 that morning, and the airplane was finally located early that afternoon-45 miles to the northeast of Scotty’s Junction. Locher, leader of the search team, later noted that the aircraft could have been located much earlier if they had had access to a variety of existing information–including the observation of a pilot of a flash in the area of the crash and the detection of a hot spot in the same vicinity by a US satellite (presumably a Defense Support Program infrared sensor)."
When Secrets Crash | Air & Space Forces Magazine
From the U-2 to the F-117A, it's a dicey issue deciding what to say and do when classified airplanes g
www.airandspaceforces.com
I have no clue about these matters or have any military experience, but it is presumable that the the answer is out there and classified, which it probably should be. The apparatus that can provide the answers is not for civilian use and in the big scheme of things this event is not that important.
No need to look for a crash, when the planes whole trip can be seen. That is what RADAR does.
So there is no need to look into the ocean, for a pin in a hay stack, if its there follow the track from the system.
No total coverage you say? What part of the earth will GPS not work?
So there is no need to look into the ocean, for a pin in a hay stack, if its there follow the track from the system.
No total coverage you say? What part of the earth will GPS not work?
Owen Lucas
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AFAIK GPS works only in 1 direction. GPS signals cover the whole planet and provide triangulation data to receivers but these receivers do not tell the satellites where they are.
From what I understand radar is ground based and unless there was a ship in the area with radar, then there is no reading to be had. I think satellites have radar but is the resolution fine enough to track an individual plane from orbit?
What was the deal with some company analyzing the signals from some piecesof equipment on board and determineing it was not traveling the direction thought. The Netflix thing spent a good deal of time on it, but details escape me.