first UOA questions. Pennzoil platinum.

[da_slash]

Ok.
02 Nissan frontier.
Pennzoil platinum 5-W30.
Mobil 1 filter. 185k miles. Avg 250 miles a week. Mixed, but mostly rual.

Ok. Now. I never even knew about used oil analysis untill I found this forum. So here's my questions.
I just changed the oil from.. what ever was in it to the PP last week. There was tons of sludge. So I ran a gunk 5 min flush just before changing the oil.
It worked great.
Than I replaced it with PP.
(I'm a penz fan)
So I'm gonna stick with the brand, but. If I'm correct, I should not run this oil change long, because of the flush that was probably left in there.

So how long till I change it?
3k miles? Or sooner?
My over all results I want is 10k mile oil changes. So what filter should get me there?
Is PP capable of this do you think?
And I ordered a used oil analysis kit. It is my thinking that there is no sense in doing a used oil analysis on this oil, but the next oil change. Is that right?
And if so, than, how long should I go on the PP before I send off a used oil analysis sample. Also what added tests should I get? I'm going with blackstone.

I think PP should b able to get me 10k. If not maybe PU? I want to exhaust all options of the PENNZOIL brand before giving up on it. Hence the used oil analysis.
Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Phishin]

Too many variables. No one knows how sludged up your motor really is.

You have a possible problem now with the engine flush....you could have clogged or partially clogged the oil pick-up screen with gunk and goo. Do you have an oil pressure gauge on your dash? If so, has it changed since the flush?

Can you easily take off the valve cover and post some pics? It's possible that your engine has major problems and 10k OCI's will never be feasible or at least recommended.

What you say "tons of sludge" what do you mean? Did the oil come out of the sump real lumpy and full of chunks? How do you know it was full of sludge? And if it's that bad in the crankcase....who knows what it looks like in your valve train?

Was the oil black or was it greyish?

 

[A_Harman]

3k OCI sounds safe to start. Send a sample out for a used oil analysis, and make sure you get a TBN reading. Then use the TBN result of the used oil analysis to gauge how much to extend your next interval.

 

[da_slash]

Ok so run this oil 3k, than run the used oil analysis on the next oil?
And the Mobil 1 filter should hold up for 7-10k miles? Or should I b looking else where?

 

[Donald]

PP can definitely do 7500, and maybe 10K, but thats not a given.

Your usage is considered severe (by Amsoil standards) as it has over 100K.

I would go 5K or 6K and do the used oil analysis and change the oil and filter. Keep with Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra (whatever Walmart has).

There will be little left of anything from the flush or previous oil. When switching oils the only odd thing in a used oil analysis is some additives you might not expect. The wear metals or TBN will not be effected.

I would not suggest doing any flush. Period. You risk trashing your engine by clogging an oil passage. Its better to have sludge than a clogged oil galley. You can only tell the sludge by pulling a valve cover. Not by seeing how dirty the oil is.

You really need TBN to see if its OK to extend OCI. Not all used oil analysis give TBN, some charge extra. In addition oxidation is also important as it tells the condition of the base oil where TBN tells the condition of the additives. Both are needed IMHO.

Consider cutting a used filter open to see how much crud is in the filter.

 

[dparm]

For the next two or three changes, I would stick with a short interval to make sure the sludge and other [censored] that's broken loose isn't in the engine for too long. Not necessary to use any flush products.

After two or three changes, I would extend out to a 5k interval.

 

[ChiTDI]

That sludge has to go somewhere. I'd use a very short OCI, even with the good oil and filter you selected.
Keep an eye on the color of the oil, maybe change the PCV valve, and even change the filter midstream if it seems loaded.
You could cut it open like Donald suggested.

 

[da_slash]

Quote:
You have a possible problem now with the engine flush....you could have clogged or partially clogged the oil pick-up screen with gunk and goo. Do you have an oil pressure gauge on your dash? If so, has it changed since the flush?

Oil pressure was normally at half gauge.
Now its at 5/8th up. So its raised a little bit.
I don't think the screen is loaded up. The engine stopped ticking, the idle has smoothed out, a lot better throttle response.
Now there is no visible sludge at all in the valves. Oil came out smooth. Ill get a valve pic up soon. But it looks great.

Quote:

What you say "tons of sludge" what do you mean? Did the oil come out of the sump real lumpy and full of chunks? How do you know it was full of sludge? And if it's that bad in the crankcase....who knows what it looks like in your valve train?


I had to replace the valve cover gasket, so that's the sludge I was referring to.
I have used the gunk flush before with the same level of success as this time.
(GREAT STUFF)
Valve train is clean except for a light varnish on it and i am sure the PP will take care of that.

Quote:

Was the oil black or was it greyish?


As black as paint. No lumps.

Current oil is as clean as ever.


And my procedures are well supervised. In case the flush takes a wrong turn on me..

 

[Donald]

Every batch of sludge is different. You are much safer to let a synthetic oil clean the sludge than using any flush. Auto-RX is an option as it works slow. Consider yourself lucky with a Gunk flush. Avoid the temptation next time.

 

[da_slash]

I am looking forward to autorx.
I simply didn't know about it at the time.

 

[da_slash]

Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
That sludge has to go somewhere. I'd use a very short OCI, even with the good oil and filter you selected.
Keep an eye on the color of the oil, maybe change the PCV valve, and even change the filter midstream if it seems loaded.
You could cut it open like Donald suggested.

Very short?
As in.... 1k miles?
3k miles?
And I will cut the filter and post pics on here.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: da_slash
Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
That sludge has to go somewhere. I'd use a very short OCI, even with the good oil and filter you selected.
Keep an eye on the color of the oil, maybe change the PCV valve, and even change the filter midstream if it seems loaded.
You could cut it open like Donald suggested.

Very short?
As in.... 1k miles?
3k miles?
And I will cut the filter and post pics on here.


Then of course you need the $50 oil filter cutter. Hard to justify to wife that you want to cut apart something that is dirty and you are going to throw away anyway.

Auto-Rx does work for some people. Follow the directions and/or ask Frank for info. But like synthetic oil, it cleans slowly. Others feel is was a $25 waste of money. But its worth a try.

 

[ChiTDI]

Your first post said "tons of sludge" and "10k OCI".
Lethal combination.
I wouldn't go over 3k on the first change after a flush, and I'd be hawking that dipstick diligently.
PP should bring you 10k OCIs once the engine is solvent free, sludge free, and otherwise sound.
Meantime, stay vigilant.

 

[147_Grain]

Originally Posted By: dparm
For the next two or three changes, I would stick with a short interval to make sure the sludge and other [censored] that's broken loose isn't in the engine for too long. Not necessary to use any flush products.

After two or three changes, I would extend out to a 5k interval.


Good advice!

 

[dnewton3]

If you're going to use very short OCIs (and I'm not saying you shouldn't at least until you can affirm the condition of the engine) then I'd suggest just a good quality conventional oil with a good detergent package. There is no need for a syn for such short OCIs. You can save money and still get excellent cleaning. Consider perhaps conventional Rotella 10w30; excellent dispersant/detergent package and can be found for a good price if you hunt for it. Other options would be the Pennzoil conventional since you're a Penn fan.

Caution - the following is my opinion only ...
I am a fan of ARX. I've had great success with it. It has proven to be a good cleaner in some applications. It is not without controversy though. Some have not had the results they desired. Part of that might be because it's very slow acting and some are impatient. Some of it is because I don't think it can do everything all the time. I think it greatly benefits from direct action, but it does not work as well in an area where it only "washes" against something. My success came from restoration of compression of stuck piston rings; that is a direct mechanical action of the ARX working together with the cyclic motion of the ring/cylinder relationship. Other folks have not seen much cleaning when looking under the valve cover; my theory is that ARX is not as successful when it only splashes against something. If I were to make an analogy, it's not unlike when you splash wash something versus scrubbing something with a wash towel; the mechanical scrubbing seems to always be more successful than just hosing something down. If you were going to wash your car, how effective would the soapy water be if you only poured it on the hood and just let it run down the side of the car, versus taking the scrub sponge to it and breaking loose the bond that is holding the dirt to the paint? See the difference I'm getting at? Soapy water can remove some dirt, and so can mechanical scrubbing, but when you combine them, they make for the best cleaning. When it comes to ARX, I think this is also the case. The ARX is essentially an ester formulation that is a metal cleaner, but it needs some assistance and can benefit from mechanical scrubbing. That is why ARX works really well on seals and rings, but not so much on just splashed surfaces (under the valve cover). Again, this is my opinion , as I've had both great success and no change whatsoever from the same product, because of the different results I was seeking and where I was looking for the changes to occur. I really like the product, and I trust it to do what I want it to do. But it probably cannot do everything for everyone in every situation. That's why some folks praise it while others pounce on it. I will also note that one or two treatments of ARX is a whole lot cheaper than tearing into an engine, and therefore it's always worth a try before more extreme measures are taken. The cost of a bottle or two of ARX is nothing in the grand scheme of tear-down costs. Why not try it?

 

[da_slash]

I am happy to try arx. I just never herd of it, untill this forum, and I need the truck driveable asap.
Ok an update on the filters.
Just before flushing the motor, I put a brandnew cheepy fram filter. Just to catch the sludge loosened up by the flush. I did not change the oil, just the filter. Here it is.
The old filter, before the flush filter.

This filter only was ran for 15 minutes or so!.


And here is the orignal filter that has over 5k miles on it.

So. I feel the flush did something. Lol.
I will be ordering some arx for later thow. For my blazer.
I just got the blackstone uoa kit.
My oil thus far looks new. 800 miles on it. So im going to continue watching it. Than run the analysis when I change it.
I will post the findings, and new filter pics.
To update this post.