Well I personally owned a brand new 23 Subaru and the oil at the first change at 200 was fuel diluted with huge amounts of metal and glitter in it.. it looked like it had been driven many more miles than 200. After the third oil change at 1500 miles I still had metal and glitter in the bottom of my oil pan. Fast forward purchased a brand new 24 Toyota RAV4, first oil change at 200 Mi revealed very little glitter and very clean oil. Sold the car to the girlfriend..moving forward I now have a 2025 Toyota 4Runner TRD off road premium. First oil change at 200 Mi revealed absolutely nothing extremely clean, did an oil change at 400 same. MPG keeps rising.. also I think magnets only will pick up ferrite Metals not aluminum from engine blocks. Just my two cents here.
First Oil Change at 600 miles - What I Found
- Thread starter zeroptzero
- Start date
I did a 1000 mile drop on my new Sienna and also had some surprisingly large bits of shedded material as well. My next change is going to be at the 5000 mile mark (4000 miles on the oil), but I am wondering about doing like a recent Oil Geek video and doing it again in 2000 miles, and once more after that.
Volvo trucks doesn't recommend the first oil change, until about 75,000 kms. Heck I don't leave any oil changes near that long, but all new Volvo trucks I buy, get their oil changed the first time, between 2,000 and 3,000 kms, the oil doesn't look good at all. Then another oil change, about 5,000 to 7,000 kms after that, and again it doesn't look good. Then they go to my normal oil change interval for all the trucks, which is about 29,000 to 34,000 kms usually, far less than Volvo recommends, but when I do it.
I think Amsoil is overkill in a Subaru. I have run NAPA 0W20 in several Subaru vehicles. They seem to be happy and run fine. My wife will never keep her Subaru past 100K miles. Her 2021 Crosstrek has just under 40K miles.
I save the expensive lubricants for my pickup.
the pump is not picking up all the fluid for the most part but I bet if you open the filter it is full of metal.. seen in many times on new engines.. Lake Speed Jr.. recommends first change at 100 miles,, next at like 300 then 700, and then 1500 before doing them at normal OC timelines. yes most manual say NOTHING about changing the first oil early but they should.. this alone is one thing you can do to help the engine live a long and healthy life.. for the most part.. allegedly,
The glitter particles are heavy and settle at tge bottom of the oil pan. In the same way as settled on the bottom of the container he used for his used engine oil.
So that glitter possibly never go through the filter and does not circulate around the engine along with the oil.
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet especially from individuals. OEM filters are good filters but there are better ones out there. I think as long as you buy oil and air filters that are name brand you will be fine. Now buying an oil filter on Amazon you have never heard of that was made in China, who knows.
I recently did a 1200 mile service on a new 2025 Mercedes. It's oil was full of glitter. I used a can of brake cleaner to get all the glitter out of the oil filter cap before installing the new filter.
Being at a shop I can't do things like pour through the engine with the plug out.
Hey I did what I could do .
Being at a shop I can't do things like pour through the engine with the plug out.
Hey I did what I could do .
- Joined
- May 16, 2022
- Messages
- 852
If like me OP, Seeing that "Fool's Gold" in the bottom of that pan is something you will never be able to un-see!
My life changing experience goes back to 1988 when I changed my then Girlfriends break-in oil out of her then new 1988 Suzuki Samurai with a few hundred miles on the clock.
I just happened to have purchased a new never used Yellow ( not black ) coolant pan to drain the oil.
Being a new never used yellow pan and only a few hundred miles on the still clear oil and was noon on a bright cloud free Sunny day, a look down and I was shocked what I was seeing at the bottom of that yellow pan!
It looked like "Fool's Gold" in the bottom of a mountain creek! Sparkly metal shavings and LOTS of it!
That was 37 years ago but after that eye opening experience for the last 37 years I change my break-in oil out early in EVERYTHING!
My New Harley, way back in 1997, 100 miles factory oil dumped, the 2nd oil change at 500 miles and again at 1K.
A new car I may go 100 to 500 miles max but break-in oil comes out! I still have the 1997 Harley bike 28 years old now and does not use one drop of oil!
New Harley in 2023, same thing, oil dump at 100, 500 and 1K miles!
The longest I have gone in 37 years was 4K miles on my New Cummins Ram Diesel, The only reason is i'm getting older and the old joints hurt and well it's a diesel and the book and the oil life monitor says 10K oil changes but again, its a Cummins Diesel...
After 1988 I don't remember ever using a yellow pan again but perhaps I should and may I suggest try a yellow pan and bright Sunlight on a first oil change! I'll never know if it was just the 88 Samurai but dreams of that fool's gold won't let me sleep with break-in oil still in the engine! From a lawn mower ( change oil after 1st cut to every new car and motorcycle ) I try and get the metal out quick.
My life changing experience goes back to 1988 when I changed my then Girlfriends break-in oil out of her then new 1988 Suzuki Samurai with a few hundred miles on the clock.
I just happened to have purchased a new never used Yellow ( not black ) coolant pan to drain the oil.
Being a new never used yellow pan and only a few hundred miles on the still clear oil and was noon on a bright cloud free Sunny day, a look down and I was shocked what I was seeing at the bottom of that yellow pan!
It looked like "Fool's Gold" in the bottom of a mountain creek! Sparkly metal shavings and LOTS of it!
That was 37 years ago but after that eye opening experience for the last 37 years I change my break-in oil out early in EVERYTHING!
My New Harley, way back in 1997, 100 miles factory oil dumped, the 2nd oil change at 500 miles and again at 1K.
A new car I may go 100 to 500 miles max but break-in oil comes out! I still have the 1997 Harley bike 28 years old now and does not use one drop of oil!
New Harley in 2023, same thing, oil dump at 100, 500 and 1K miles!
The longest I have gone in 37 years was 4K miles on my New Cummins Ram Diesel, The only reason is i'm getting older and the old joints hurt and well it's a diesel and the book and the oil life monitor says 10K oil changes but again, its a Cummins Diesel...
After 1988 I don't remember ever using a yellow pan again but perhaps I should and may I suggest try a yellow pan and bright Sunlight on a first oil change! I'll never know if it was just the 88 Samurai but dreams of that fool's gold won't let me sleep with break-in oil still in the engine! From a lawn mower ( change oil after 1st cut to every new car and motorcycle ) I try and get the metal out quick.
I don't remember hearing him make this^^^ recommendation.
This was his email response to me about determining how to determine oil for my application. Posted before somewhere with his permission:
"Step 1 - Utilize the OEM recommended oil and do two early oil changes during the break-in process (500 to 1,000 miles and again between 3,000 and 4,000 miles). It is ok that you switched to Amsoil Signature Series already. Just stick with it to establish the baseline.
Step 2 - Take used oil samples at each oil change to establish the trend analysis.
Step 3 - Go 5,000 miles on the third oil change and take a used oil sample. If the wear rate per 1,000 miles is below 5 ppm, you are good. If the wear rate is between 5 ppm and 10 ppm per 1,000 miles, go another 5,000 miles on the OEM recommended oil and resample. If the wear rate is still greater than 5 ppm per 1,000 miles, then move to step 4.
Step 4 - Since the OEM recommended oil and viscosity have not produced a wear rate per 1,000 miles lower than 5 ppm, go up to next viscosity grade in the OEM oil. Go 4,000 to 5,000 miles on that oil and then take another sample. See if the change in viscosity drops the wear rate per 1,000 miles below 5 ppm. If it does, you are good. If it does not, then move to Step 5.
Step 5 - Since the change in viscosity did not get the wear rate per 1,000 miles below 5 ppm, try a different brand of oil in the same viscosity grade of whichever oil had the lowest wear rate per 1,000 miles. You will need to use it for 3,000 to 4,000 miles to flush the OEM oil out of the system before going 5,000 miles on the new oil to take another sample. See if the non-OEM oil lowers the wear rate per 1,000 miles to 5 ppm or less. If it does, you are good. You can then use the oil analysis results to fine tune the oil change interval.
If the wear rate per 1,000 miles is still above 5 ppm, try the next higher viscosity oil of that same brand to see if that lowers the wear rate per 1,000 miles. Finding the best oil for an engine is an iterative process, but the data from the samples (viscosity, additive depletion, wear rate) will paint a picture that guides you in the right direction.
The key is to make decisions based on facts instead of fear. Use the science instead of speculating."
MANN filters are made in Germany. MANN is a supplier to BMW.
On all of the new cars we have ever purchased, the factory fill had however many miles there was between the dealership and my house (usually 15 to 50). I would do some accel/decel ring seating procedures on the way how and then change it. Then again at 500 miles, then go to 5K OCI.
My comment was not specific to any one car company.
But at one point the filter on a new Subaru was black but the filter you would get at the Subaru parts counter was blue and some people felt the blue one was not the same quality as the black one. Could be Japan sourced vs USA sourced.
But Mobil 1 and Amsoil (maybe others) are probably better than any OEM but cost more too.
The only way to get really super oil filtering is to have a bypass filter in addition to a full flow.
- Joined
- May 16, 2022
- Messages
- 852
I can relate to your Subaru oil filter story.
I owned a Subaru for a VERY short time period. I purchased a then new 2014 Subaru WRX, Only put 4,000 miles on the car and traded it for a first year then new 2015 Dodge Hellcat.
During my short WRX ownership like I always do I change the factory oil out early and back about that time 2014 / 2015 is when the filters were changing.
As I remember the story....
The new WRX came factory from Japan with a black made in Japan oil filter, You could buy the black filters at a USA dealer but Subaru during that time frame awarded the USA Subaru OEM oil filters to "FRAM" ! Fram made the blue filters!
The older Japan made Black filters had the the pressure relief coil spring valve at the opening of the filter when the Blue FRAM had the pressure relief valve at the bottom with that leaf spring like may FRAM filters are designed today.
The idea is the black Japan filters with the valve opening at the top will alow the oil to stay clean when it goes into bypass. The Fram design if the valve opens the idea is oil can enter the filter, wash down the dirty side of the filter and enter into the engine possibly return trash into the engine.
Also the fact it change to FRAM from a Japan oil filter company had some Subaru owners uneasy,
Someone on this forum reported the Subaru filters have changed again? I have no idea.
Back then when I could not get a black WRX filter at the dealer I found WIX was the same spec and had the top mount valve and the proper PSI spec so I used WIX.
The original BMW oil filters (from dealer) I have bought recently across different models say Hengst. Mann is fine but it is not generally the original manufacturer of oil filters for BMW currently. Back when I owned M30 powered BMWs, I recall seeing Mann and Mahle on the BMW branded filters.
One thing I hear quite often is "machining is much cleaner than it was years ago" this is not true, machining engines is a dirty business some engines are a real mess inside with small chips, metal particles and even swarf like on some Ford 5.4 engines that actually got between the head and gasket and cause oil leaks. This is kind of a long video but interesting.
I found glitter in the filtered oil line for my predator engine. I was using a Baldwin 10micron hydraulic filter to filter the engine oil and does not have a bypass.
There may be glitter but that does not indicate that the service life of the engine will be adversely impacted. And if one were to argue that the service life is impacted, what makes folks think the rest of the car is built to last longer than the manufacturer intended the engine to last?
I have said this before but I will say it again, having taken several vehicles to 250k-300k miles, even if the engine is ok the rest of the vehicle is shot - seats are worn out, corrosion becomes a problem, things leak, the AC goes, and the emissions system starts to become non-compliant. This is why over thinking a break in oil service is not necessary.
I have said this before but I will say it again, having taken several vehicles to 250k-300k miles, even if the engine is ok the rest of the vehicle is shot - seats are worn out, corrosion becomes a problem, things leak, the AC goes, and the emissions system starts to become non-compliant. This is why over thinking a break in oil service is not necessary.
CleanSump
Site Donor 2026
The last Mann I put in my Mercedes a couple of weeks ago was made in South Korea. They also manufacture them in Brazil, Czech Republic, and China.
- Joined
- May 16, 2022
- Messages
- 852
I remember simple times NOT so long ago...
As just a few examples, My Harley branded OEM oil filter was once made with pride by Champion in York South Carolina, The York plant now closed a few years back and the most recent Harley OEM filter is now made by MAHLE produced in India.
A WIX filter ( NAPA GOLD once made by WIX, Nope NO more ) WIX was made with Pride in Gastonia NC, Best I can tell SOME WIX filters "MAY" still be made in Gastonia but WIX is now owned by MANN+ HUMMEL a German Company with GLOBAL Production.
And now I hear First Brands ( FRAM ) Files Chapter 11...
In 2025 Is it that hard to make a oil filter in the USA that can actually turn a profit?
Those folks who made those Filters in North and South Carolina were the very ones that used his / her paycheck to pay for his / her new New Harley!
As just a few examples, My Harley branded OEM oil filter was once made with pride by Champion in York South Carolina, The York plant now closed a few years back and the most recent Harley OEM filter is now made by MAHLE produced in India.
A WIX filter ( NAPA GOLD once made by WIX, Nope NO more ) WIX was made with Pride in Gastonia NC, Best I can tell SOME WIX filters "MAY" still be made in Gastonia but WIX is now owned by MANN+ HUMMEL a German Company with GLOBAL Production.
And now I hear First Brands ( FRAM ) Files Chapter 11...
In 2025 Is it that hard to make a oil filter in the USA that can actually turn a profit?
Those folks who made those Filters in North and South Carolina were the very ones that used his / her paycheck to pay for his / her new New Harley!
Similar threads
