First fill up in the Volt

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
A 4 seat "economy car" for that money is no bargain.Unless you sell it off in 2 years and reap most of your purchase price back,you are money out.A better deal would be buy a VW diesel or Honda about 10 years old and keep it til it drops.Keep that Volt for 20 years and either GM will be out of business,or else the Volt will be another past model,and an unsupported memory.


Honda Civic maybe, VW diesel? You'll be dumping money into parts and repair way more than you save on fuel.

 

[Cooker]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

But assist as in assist the battery by sourcing extra electrical power on the bus is different than shafting to the axles.


The way I have read all most recent info on the Volt's powertrain is that at times the gasoline engine can directly provide power to the wheels in conjunction with the electric motors.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Cooker
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

But assist as in assist the battery by sourcing extra electrical power on the bus is different than shafting to the axles.


The way I have read all most recent info on the Volt's powertrain is that at times the gasoline engine can directly provide power to the wheels in conjunction with the electric motors.


Originally Posted By: Patman
http://gm-volt.com/chevy-volt-faqs/


Q: How is the Chevy Volt different than conventional hybrids, like the Prius?
A: Today’s hybrids are called parallel hybrids. They use a small electric motor for low speed driving, but switch to a regular gas engine for acceleration and faster speed driving with the electric motor providing enhancement, hence both engines work side by side or in parallel.
The Volt is a series vehicle meaning only the electric motor powers the car at all times, the gas engine is just a generator for making electricity once the battery is depleted. A little like the Prius, the engine does help spin the wheels after the battery is depleted. GM engineers chose to do this because it improved efficiency by 10 to 15 percent.





Specifically:

The Volt is a series vehicle meaning only the electric motor powers the car at all times, the gas engine is just a generator for making electricity once the battery is depleted.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Cooker
Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister
The Prius advertises up to 15 miles on electric,


Well thats nothing to write home about. I'm a bit disappoineted with the electric only range of the Plug In Prius. That explains why its less than 1/2 the electricy to charge as the Volt.

Given what could be a $10k premium for a plug in Prius over a standard Prius I would opt for a regular Prius. The additional expense buys a lot of fuel and 50+ MPG is still very energy conscious in today's auto market.

An apples-to-apples comparison in terms of feature content will give you a price diff of closer to 5k, but that's before considering the generous tax credits available right now for many areas.

Many area of the people around here purchase them for the HOV lane access more than anything.

 

[Cooker]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Specifically:

The Volt is a series vehicle meaning only the electric motor powers the car at all times, the gas engine is just a generator for making electricity once the battery is depleted.


There is a 2nd paragraph to the FAQ question quoted above but it was not posted here.

The second paragraph clearly states "A little like the Prius, the engine does help spin the wheels after the battery is depleted. GM engineers chose to do this because it improved efficiency by 10 to 15 percent." You can follow the link to check it out for yourself.

There is much more information posted all across the web and even cited by GM themselves, that the gasoline engine can and does power the wheels at certain times

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Cooker
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Specifically:

The Volt is a series vehicle meaning only the electric motor powers the car at all times, the gas engine is just a generator for making electricity once the battery is depleted.


There is a 2nd paragraph to the FAQ question quoted above but it was not posted here.

The second paragraph clearly states "A little like the Prius, the engine does help spin the wheels after the battery is depleted. GM engineers chose to do this because it improved efficiency by 10 to 15 percent." You can follow the link to check it out for yourself.

There is much more information posted all across the web and even cited by GM themselves, that the gasoline engine can and does power the wheels at certain times



http://translogic.aolautos.com/2010/10/11/gm-comes-clean-on-volt-drivetrain/

First it says this:
Quote:
GM is using a version of its two-mode hybrid transmission that allows for a so-called "power split" mode that connects the crankshaft of the gas engine to the Volt's two electric drive motors by means of a planetary gearset.


Then:
Quote:
The first mode is the easiest to understand, as it uses the 111 kw traction motors to drive the wheels, with all the electric power coming from the battery. This EV mode delivers 273 lb-ft of torque to the wheels and makes the Volt fairly quick to accelerate from a standing start.

The second EV mode employs both electric motors -- the traction motor and the 55 kw generator – to drive the wheels, with electric power coming from the battery. This mode blends the power by means of the planetary gearset to allow for improved highway efficiency, as both motors are able to run closer to their optimal efficiency.

The third mode happens during extended range driving, when the gasoline engine is operating. In this mode the traction motor drives the wheels, with electricity coming from the battery as well as the motor generator, which is being spun by the gas engine. GM calls this a "weak series" arrangement, as the battery is always the lead power source.

 

[Cooker]

And GM-volt.com list a 4th mode as well.

Quote:
The fourth and controversial state commences when the vehicle reaches speeds of 70 mph while in extended range mode.

As in EV mode the ring gear is decoupled from the case by the clutch and the smaller electric motor is once again allowed to operate in parallel with the large motor, increasing the system’s efficiency. The difference here is that the smaller motor is still being turned by the engine and not electricity. Thus the engine becomes coupled with both electric motors and all three work together to turn the driveshaft. Thus the gas engine participates in turning the wheels mechanically although indirectly. The generator is decoupled from the ring gear again when speeds drop back below 70 mph.



This link has an interview with the Chief Engineer from the volt.

http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chev...ehicle-90758.ht

The only point I have is that the gas engine is not only a generator to create electrical power for the two electric motors. At times the power created by the gas engine is also used to propel the car directly without having to convert its power to electricity first.

 

[SteveSRT8]

That is a significant plus that I was not aware of.

Thanks for your post!

 

[JHZR2]

Good stuff. Wonder why the mode is controversial?

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Good stuff. Wonder why the mode is controversial?


I think it's because the car is marketed as a "series hybrid" and not a "parallel hybrid". But it sometimes operates as a "parallel hybrid".

Personally, I don't think it's a big deal. It's like obsessing over whether something is Group III or Group IV. What matters is the results.

 

[Cooker]

Quote:
I think it's because the car is marketed as a "series hybrid" and not a "parallel hybrid". But it sometimes operates as a "parallel hybrid".


This. Originally GM was not completely honest about the operation of the car. For me personally I didn't have a clue the car even had a gasoline engine based on GM's original marketing. I thought it was powered exclusively by electric based on their original advertising and sales pitch.

Quote:
Personally, I don't think it's a big deal.


Agreed. I don't care either how it operates, the results are whats important. It's GMs initial deception that is frustrating to me as well as the misconception that the car is exclusively an electric vehicle.

 

[SteveSRT8]

There was no deception. There was marketing. You led yourself to believe what you wanted to.

GM did nothing wrong. Except deliver more than most of us knew.

You did it to yourself.

 

[PandaBear]

The concept of serial hybrid vs parallel hybrid made sense back when they have only 1 electric motor instead of the dual motor planetary gear setup today in Prius, Volt, etc. This new setup really get the best of both world: the precise narrow rpm control that keep the engine in the peak efficiency, and the mostly direct engine to wheel coupling (and some amount of electrical coupling will still go between the 2 motors to get the gear ratio right).

It wasn't doable back then with large and costly motors, but today it is much more affordable, to a point that it doesn't make sense to do any other way.

 

[Cooker]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
There was no deception. There was marketing. You led yourself to believe what you wanted to.


There absolutely was deception. That is the root of this issue that has been discussed on the last several post here.

GM originally stated in initial press releases that the gas engine was only used as a generator to provide electric power car. This same statement has been proven to be false by admissions from their own engineers. In their own defense of their deception, they have said they were waiting for pending patents on their drivetrain before disclosing the full facts about how the drivetrain in the car worked.

For me personally, correct I assumed there was not a gasoline engine based on the first commercial I seen for the Volt. Yes, the marketing led me to belive this. They never mentioned gasoline at any one point in the initial few commercials I had seen. I realized on my own research of the car that the car needed gasoline to move too. And I also believed the original press releases that the gasoline engine was only a generator.

I dont have an axe to grind with the Volt. I am actually quite impressed with the initial offering of the car. Once it proves to have a solid longevity I might be in line to own one myself.

 

[hattaresguy]

Wow I guess that doesn't matter at all.

Volts a nice car, and a good idea. Now Toyota is following suite.

 

[SteveSRT8]

The facts being that the Volt has a MORE sophisticated powertrain than advertised only make it better.

It's like buying 100hp and getting 200!

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister
Cost delta is less than $20k when you factor in the $7500 federal tax credit which we need this year, the state rebate of $1500, and the $1000 under msrp. Our Cruze was about $23k and never averaged much above 32 mpg.


I understand there is a Prius plug in coming (and is now available via aftermarket too) . Sorry, but the Prius is not in the same category as the Volt, with the Volt being a much nicer car to live with.

My friend is purchasing a Tesla S. It will be interesting to see how that does in real world operation. I have a good mind to give him a 2 stroke, Harbor-Freight 800W generator for his "trunk" when the juice runs out (as a joke)

In my mind, the only cost metric that matters in the end is "cost per mile". Factoring in everything, I wonder how the Volt and the Tesla S will fare? Anybody want to make an attempt at the calculation?

 

[Sunnyinhollister]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister
Cost delta is less than $20k when you factor in the $7500 federal tax credit which we need this year, the state rebate of $1500, and the $1000 under msrp. Our Cruze was about $23k and never averaged much above 32 mpg.


I understand there is a Prius plug in coming (and is now available via aftermarket too) . Sorry, but the Prius is not in the same category as the Volt, with the Volt being a much nicer car to live with.


The Prius plug in is already out and available. The cost delta between a similar Prius and Volt is not all that much and the Volt is much more capable.