Filter Specs -

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: oiltard

It's not an unreasonable question either. If I go to the dealership to buy filters for the three vehicles, they sell me 3 of the same filter. Does that mean a filter that fits one fits all 3?


Yes ... the car manufacture engineers must think that all those vehicles will work just fine with that same filter.

Originally Posted By: oiltard
If so, why doesn't Denso spec the filter for the Acura and the CR-V? And why doesn't Wix spec the 51356 for those 2?


Because different engineers from different companies are making different decisions on which filter should be used on what vehicle. Denso or WIX or whoever might have some other reasons why they spec a different filter for the same vehicle.

 

[oiltard]

Quote:


Because different engineers from different companies are making different decisions on which filter should be used on what vehicle. Denso or WIX or whoever might have some other reasons why they spec a different filter for the same vehicle.


Denso doesn't appear to spec any filter for 2 of the 3 vehicles. That's what I'm having trouble wrapping my head around. Guess I'll have to remain confused for the time being. It doesn't appear there's a very strong concensus one way or the other on the matter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: oiltard

Denso doesn't appear to spec any filter for 2 of the 3 vehicles. That's what I'm having trouble wrapping my head around.


That does seem strange ... maybe the Denso line isn't extensive enough to cover those vehicles for some reason. They may make way less filter models than say Purolator or WIX does, and don't feel like making filters that aren't high volume movers.

If you can find a contact number of email for Denso Tech Support, shoot them a message asking why they don't make a filter for your cars. It's all just speculation at this point.

 

[oiltard]

Just sent this off to the tech support dept as suggested:

"I like your oil filters and would like to use them on 2 cars I personally care for, but your website doesn't list the filter for the applications.

One is a 2011 Honda CR-V, the other is a 2010 Acura TL 3.7L SH-AWD. I believe the 150-1009 is actually correct (crosses to PL14610/7317), but I am hesitant to use them without expressly seeing that they are specified for those engines.

Can you let me know whether this or another filter is actually applicable for these cars? I'd greatly appreciate the information. Thanks!"

I'll post if I hear back.

 

[oiltard]

I'm thinking the Denso specs list just hasn't been updated recently. I feel dumb for not having thought of it earlier, but I checked the 2009 model of the TL and they spec the 150-1009, as I suspected. The 2010 in question has the same engine.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: oiltard
I'm thinking the Denso specs list just hasn't been updated recently. I feel dumb for not having thought of it earlier, but I checked the 2009 model of the TL and they spec the 150-1009, as I suspected. The 2010 in question has the same engine.


That's probably the case ... they're probably just behind on their application data.

 

[oiltard]

Hi xxxx,

Thank you for your interest in DENSO products and I'm sorry for the delay in replying to your request. Sorry to say, at this time DENSO does not show any oil filters for your two applications.


Steve

 

[ZeeOSix]

That's surprising ... guess Denso doesn't have a real large range of filters.

 

[oiltard]

They have one they spec for the same engine built in 2009, but not for the 2010

I think they're not updated yet and this guy's afraid to give the green light.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: oiltard
It's not an unreasonable question either. If I go to the dealership to buy filters for the three vehicles, they sell me 3 of the same filter. Does that mean a filter that fits one fits all 3?

For that particular filter and those particular applications, yes.


Originally Posted By: oiltard
If so, why doesn't Denso spec the filter for the Acura and the CR-V? And why doesn't Wix spec the 51356 for those 2?

I could not tell you why the aftermarket specifies different filters where OE has one. They're not going to tell me any more than they'd tell you.

Questions like the ones you have are part of the reason I stick to OE filters for our cars. I trusted the automaker enough to buy one of their engines. I'm also going to trust them when they tell me what they think is the best way to take care of it.

 

[oiltard]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
Questions like the ones you have are part of the reason I stick to OE filters for our cars. I trusted the automaker enough to buy one of their engines. I'm also going to trust them when they tell me what they think is the best way to take care of it.


That's certainly your right if it makes you feel better. Although depending on what you drive, you might not be buying the same filter at the dealership that your car was originally supplied with.

And while you're at it, you could choose to use the dealer-supplied oil, spark plugs, air filters, and tires. They did build the car, after all. They're probably the best equipped to put brake pads on it...

I don't make that choice. I am not saying I know better than the dealership network, but that I have better choices available to me. That's one of the reasons I log onto BITOG.

They're not going to tell me anything the website doesn't say is basically what I think. And at the moment, it hasn't been updated to the 2010 model year for Honda/Acura, but the filter in question comes up when you search the 2009 versions of the same cars, which were not redesigned between '09 and '10. I'm thinking I'm pretty safe to use the filter.

Thanks to everyone for their insights and opinions.

 

[Filter guy]

oiltard; I'll try to explain seeing how I don't work for a filter manufacturer any more.

In order for a cross reference to be applicable, engineering has to approve it. That's the bottom line.

Just because some consumer finds the right threads and the filter fits, does not mean engineering would approve the filter for the particular application.

Each engine OEM has their own test procedures. Yes, they all use ISO test procedures but run them to different parameters- flow rates, contaminant amounts, dirt holding capacity, efficiency, when to terminate the test, etc. There may also be construction issues like type & durometer of gaskets or anti-drain. By-pass valve settings. Burst and collapse are generally not an issue for car engines.

Unless one knows what those parameters are, then you can't be sure your filter "meets or exceeds" OEM specs.

Will XXXX filter spin on and work. Most probably. But as was pointed out earlier, if the filter manufacturer does not catalog a particular filter part number for that engine, that manufacturer won't warranty any engine failure that was proven to be caused by the filter. Why? Because they don't have the testing to prove their filter "meets or exceeds". A BITOG recommendation won't cut it in a lawsuit or battle between OEM, filter manufacturer, and consumer.

So if warranty is an issue, stick with what is cataloged for the OEM engine. If warranty isn't an issue, use what you want. Just don't complain after.

 

[oiltard]

Filter guy -

Thanks for that explanation. That is the answer I was looking for to my original question. I still think Denso just hasn't updated their info, because they spec the filter for the 2009 TL, but not the 2010 TL, which has the same engine. But I have 100% on the OLM right now and I'm going to have some time to decide whether I dare using this filter on that car.

Thanks for all the information and opinions.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: oiltard
I still think Denso just hasn't updated their info, because they spec the filter for the 2009 TL, but not the 2010 TL, which has the same engine.


Well, that would mean they are almost 3 years behind in their application database since 2010 model year cars come out around mid 2009, and now it's fast approaching mid 2012. I'm thinking is something more than just they fired the application database guy 3 years ago.

 

[Filter guy]

Originally Posted By: oiltard
Filter guy -

Thanks for that explanation. That is the answer I was looking for to my original question. I still think Denso just hasn't updated their info, because they spec the filter for the 2009 TL, but not the 2010 TL, which has the same engine. But I have 100% on the OLM right now and I'm going to have some time to decide whether I dare using this filter on that car.

Thanks for all the information and opinions.


No problem.

Can't answer 100% for Denso. But Japanese engine manufacturers are notorious for changing specs from engine to engine or after few model years. Sometimes it is a simple thing like gasket orientation. For a few years the gasket is by the edge of the can ( referred to as outboard ). Or they move it inward towards the threads ( hence inboard).

Possibly that may be it. But one would need to look at the OEM filters to confirm. Which is one thing the filter companies do. Every model year or new engine, they get the filters from the OEM or Dealer and recheck things if they don't build the filter for the OEM.

Or it could be some other spec change.

 

[oiltard]

All 3 of the vehicles in question were not overhauled between 2009/10/11. All 3 are listed as applications on the Denso website in the 2009 model year. All 3 are NOT listed on the Denso website in the 2010 model year, despite having the same 3 engines as they did in 2009. I'm more sure than ever that Denso just failed to update their database for Honda/Acura, although it seemed unlikely. I'm leaning towards using these filters in all 3 cars. I like their price and really like the construction quality. Thanks to all for opinions and information, and I'll keep you updated if I come upon any new information.

 

[oiltard]

Hmm, in an apparent twist to this mystery, the Denso Aftermarket website now lists the 150-1009 for all 3 cars in question (Acura 2010 TL, Honda 2011 CR-V, and Honda 2005 Civic).

Not sure why Denso wasn't able to confirm this the first time I reached out and asked them. With the recent apparent decrease in quality of the Wix product, I think I'll be using these Denso's (Which are the original equipment manufacturer, incidentally) in all 3 cars.

Sorry to revive an old thread, but didn't want to start a new one for an existing topic.

 

[HerrStig]

Car manufacturers don't make their own filters, no matter what the label says. Seems to me the outfit which DOES can, sell the same filter under their own name. Lots of info on here on who makes what, for whom, and for how long. Puro has made filters for Japanese car makers.

 

[doitmyself]

Oiltard,

Thank you for the follow up, as this always adds to the educational value of our threads.

In this case, your logic and gut instinct was correct. Maybe your inquiry woke somebody up at Denso. You should have pursued it more with them early on (your logical explanation).

But, I have witnessed other times when it was wiser to follow filterguy's "safer than sorry" regimen.

Without going into details, with my 35 years experience with workplace ag and grounds equipment, I have questioned a few WIX cross references that just didn't seem right. I know of one instance of a CAT engine injector pump rebuild when a "will fit" fuel filter caused expensive damage.

For 2 years, WIX listed the "wrong" filter for my 4 cyl. 2005 Caravan. The wrong one would have fit and worked, but it was entirely different than the OEM one. They eventually caught that mistake.

I'm just saying that you were good to question the cross reference problems you found. But, be very careful if you choose not to follow filterguy's advice. In a rare instance, it could cause an expensive problem.

Great thread....right up my alley. Thanks again for the follow up.