filter cause of my problems

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silvergoat

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So I had an issue with excessive lead in my oil 25ppm compared to the UA of 8ppm.

I spoke with a very knowledgeable oil vendor. He was surprised to hear that this happened while using the German Castrol, and even with the M1 0w-40 I used before he said this should not happen as it is also very good oil.

He had a corvette with an LS6 (I have LS2) and he takes his up to 7200rpm stock block, I go up to 6800 stock block.

He has had no problems and uses the same oil that I was favoring to upgrade to, in his srt-8. Redline 5w-40 which has a very high HTHS value and it is also a thick oil which would help with the pressure at the bearings.

Anyways, he happened to ask about the oil filter and I responded with Purolator. He said it was a very good filter, but it impeded flow a little too much and he was concerned that my car spent too much time getting oil from the bypass in the filter. This would let debris through, especially at high rpm driving, which could in turn cause the type of accelerated wear issue I had.

I changed over to a Wix with this last oil change and if I see numbers improve I think the flow issue can be a hugely overlooked component of a performance engine.

I did see the recent thread, I just wanted to post a relevant, but slightly off topic example.
 
Originally Posted By: silvergoat

Anyways, he happened to ask about the oil filter and I responded with Purolator. He said it was a very good filter, but it impeded flow a little too much and he was concerned that my car spent too much time getting oil from the bypass in the filter. This would let debris through, especially at high rpm driving, which could in turn cause the type of accelerated wear issue I had.


I don't buy it unless you have put a high volume oil pump on your LS2. It's possible the thicker oil might cause more bypass action at redline. Are you talking the PureONE filter or the Classic model? My feeling is if the Purolator is actually going into bypass, then so will most other filters used on your car. The combo of higher than normal RPM and thicker oil could be most of the cause. Also, the pump relief valve may not be doing it's job well with the extra RPM.

The WIX filters have a lowere bypass setting than the PureONEs. From my experience, I see no loss of oil pressure at near redline with the PureONE vs. the WIX/NAPA Gold on my Z06.
 
It's a high pressure oil pump, not high volume- so I don't know how that affects the dynamic.

I am adding a thicker oil to see if it allows more pressure at the bearing.

You think that this would make my problem worse? [censored] car doesn't have an oil pressure gauge so I can't monitor (GTO, not Vette).
 
Originally Posted By: silvergoat
It's a high pressure oil pump, not high volume- so I don't know how that affects the dynamic.


Is it a stock oil pump, or has the oil pump's relief valve been set higher?

More oil pressure means more oil volume since the effect of more pressure on a fixed flow resistance will produce more oil flow through that resistance. In this case the flow resistance is the filter + engine.

Originally Posted By: silvergoat
I am adding a thicker oil to see if it allows more pressure at the bearing.

You think that this would make my problem worse? [censored] car doesn't have an oil pressure gauge so I can't monitor (GTO, not Vette).


It's possible that thicker oil might cause the filter to go into bypass mode quicker. Although, ideally the flow volume would be cut down some with thicker oil if the pump's releif valve worked perfectly - so the pressure drop across the filter would theoretically remain the same. One thing about running thinner oil is that the flow volume actually increases through the system when pushed at the same max supply pressure.
 
10psi higher

I don't know how I would find an oil with lower viscosity and higher shear numbers

GC I was using was 3.5 HTHS and 12.1 cSt @100 degree

Redline 5w-40 is 4.6 HTHS and 15.1 cSt@100 degree

Is it safe to assume that if I am seeing bearing wear I would be doing more to fix the problem by switching to higher HTHS oil?

Or would the better approach be to reduce the viscosity so that oil flows through the filter more easily?
 
IMO, running the thinnest oil that will give the adequate protection is ideal. It gives you higher flow volume to the bearings, and reduces the chances of the filter going into bypass mode.
 
I will look at some more oils to find one that may fit better. Do you recommend any filter that flows well and has a higher bypass setting?

Thanks for your help here.
 
Originally Posted By: silvergoat
I will look at some more oils to find one that may fit better. Do you recommend any filter that flows well and has a higher bypass setting?

Thanks for your help here.


If you look at the data in this chart showing comparative flow vs. PSID data for some filters, you can see that the PureONE flows pretty good.

Like I mentioned earlier, I think see no loss of engine oil pressure with the PureONE vs. a WIX (or NAPA Gold) on my Z06. If the PureONE was more restrictive, I'd see some PSI loss at high RPM when the oil pump is in pressure relief mode.

From my testing, I see 70 psi with either the NAPA Gold or a PureONE. The pressure relief on the LS6 is around 75 psi, so that means the PSID across the filter is around 5 psi ... well below the bypass setting; especially on a PureONE which is around 14-16 psi.

pi_filt_oil_gold_coldoil_thumb.jpg
 
"too much time getting oil from the bypass in the filter"

The filter doesn't have one in the 06 GTO. GM went to in filter bypass valves in 07. You're a slave to the in block mechanism.

That's assuming that this is the same engine with the 25ppm of Pb in the UOA section.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
"too much time getting oil from the bypass in the filter"

The filter doesn't have one in the 06 GTO. GM went to in filter bypass valves in 07. You're a slave to the in block mechanism.

That's assuming that this is the same engine with the 25ppm of Pb in the UOA section.


Maybe a good point ... but I didn't see where the OP listed the year of his Goat. And it's not in his profile.

I believe the LS2 first came out in 2005 (?).
 
I have no idea what the in block thing is- it is the same engine with the problem

LS2 with LS6 oil pump running at 10psi higher oil pressure setting

lol- this is getting over my head quickly
 
The LSx engines have a LOT in common with the SBF (Windsor) engine, I would be VERY surprised if any of the LSx engines used an in-block bypass.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The LSx engines have a LOT in common with the SBF (Windsor) engine, I would be VERY surprised if any of the LSx engines used an in-block bypass.


My 2002 LS6 in Vette Z06 definitely does use the in block filter bypass valve.
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The LSx engines have a LOT in common with the SBF (Windsor) engine, I would be VERY surprised if any of the LSx engines used an in-block bypass.


My 2002 LS6 in Vette Z06 definitely does use the in block filter bypass valve.


Then colour me very surprised
grin2.gif


I assumed they would not carry it over from the older SBC, given that they have next to nothing in common.
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The LSx engines have a LOT in common with the SBF (Windsor) engine, I would be VERY surprised if any of the LSx engines used an in-block bypass.


My 2002 LS6 in Vette Z06 definitely does use the in block filter bypass valve.


What does this mean?
 
Originally Posted By: silvergoat
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The LSx engines have a LOT in common with the SBF (Windsor) engine, I would be VERY surprised if any of the LSx engines used an in-block bypass.


My 2002 LS6 in Vette Z06 definitely does use the in block filter bypass valve.


What does this mean?



It means that GM did indeed use the in-block bypass on some of the LSx engines.

As I said, I was surprised, because the LSx has essentially no basis in the previous generation SBC, and has a lot MORE in common with the Ford Windsor engines.
 
LS2 prior to 07 used a bypass in the oil pan- from what I read.

How does this apply? What is the difference?

I don't mean to sound ignorant, but I really don't know as much as I should- we all have to start somewhere.
 
Quote:
What does this mean?


It means you're going to look toward visc to solve your Pb issue.

btw- It's obvious that the newer generation Chevy's with the in block filter bypass are not as common in either modifying or defeating them. I think I recall a forum where one guy replaced the standard 11 psi (iirc) filter bypass with a 30lb one that was spec'd (or so the post led me to believe) the oil cooler setup. I don't recall the forum ..nor can I find it.

This is not easily found on the net. Tons of oil pump upgrades ..pump relief spring mods ..but I see nothing about the filter bypass other than the announcements of the 2009 elimination of the in block valves.
 
lower viscosity or more viscosity.....which is the answer?

it sucks if lower viscosity is the answer b/c I will have a full case of very high viscosity redline oil just sitting around.

that, and finding low viscosity/high HTHS oil is difficult
 
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