As infrequently as transmission fluid is changed, I think maybe a TP bypass makes even more sense. My hobby is firewood gathering and I have been planning to put a cooler on to reduce the stress on the trans but have been entertaining the idea of a filter. Any opinions? I have a 2004 Toyota Prerunner with a 3.4 six and auto trans. The dual remote bypass might be interesting.
Filter and cooler questions
- Thread starter chenobylite
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I wonder if a thermostatic control of some kind would be of value with a transmission cooler so you don't try to cool fluid that is not warmed up yet? Transmissions don't like too much heat but cold fluid can't work as well as fluid that's up to normal operating temperature. Or would this all be an overkill?
OK, I'm no expert-- but this comes to mind:quote:
Originally posted by RalphPWood:
I don't see why you couldn't put a tee in one of the fluid lines for pressure and return the clean fluid to the oil pan with a self tapping hollow bolt or a drain fitting that you can find in an auto parts store. You would use a filter with no internal bypass orifice for that.
Ralph
if you do the above, aren't you creating a loop directly back to the pan for the fluid to bypass the transmission cooler?
been thinking on this some more.
I've noticed it said many times that if you keep the flow through the filter slow, it'll filter all the better...
so why not do this:
tap the pressure line from the transmission to the cooler with a "T". Feed the tap to the TP filter, WITH the restrictor in line with it [ie-- just like a normal bypass filter for motor oil]. then feed that back to the pan.
This would seem to me [and I'm still learning, so if I'm wrong, please explain it] to be the best of all possible worlds. Flow through the cooler is still more or less unaffected, so the tranny won't overheat. The fluid is filtered, and it's done slowly, at low pressure and volume, so it's filtered really well. Return the fluid to the pan for convenience.
Make any sense? Please correct me if I'm wrong, and explain...
I've noticed it said many times that if you keep the flow through the filter slow, it'll filter all the better...
so why not do this:
tap the pressure line from the transmission to the cooler with a "T". Feed the tap to the TP filter, WITH the restrictor in line with it [ie-- just like a normal bypass filter for motor oil]. then feed that back to the pan.
This would seem to me [and I'm still learning, so if I'm wrong, please explain it] to be the best of all possible worlds. Flow through the cooler is still more or less unaffected, so the tranny won't overheat. The fluid is filtered, and it's done slowly, at low pressure and volume, so it's filtered really well. Return the fluid to the pan for convenience.
Make any sense? Please correct me if I'm wrong, and explain...
No, you're right burnkat. The pressure drop across the filter would be enough to keep the oil going thru the cooler. As I understand it what you're describing is the way most bypass systems are set up whether they're on the engine or tranny.
My problem was I thought the restrictor was for the filter and not for the other stream but thanks to olympic's explanation I now see the light. It still seems strange to me a TP would flow so much it'd need a restrictor to avoid starving the other stream though. I would've thought the entire point of it's dense media was to limit flow but who am I too argue. Course, if I'm still confused I'm sure someone will straighten me out
The problem is the car I'm dealing with has an odd setup. From rear to front the engine is most rearward, the final drive is next, and the auto tranny is closest to the front of the car. The radiator is also in the front. The tranny now has a oil to coolant heat exchanger located in the rear of the car. I want to add a oil to air cooler and a bypass filter. The only place I have for a filter (either full flow or bypass) is behind the left front wheel up in the well.
So I need to run lines from the rear of the car to front and back. I also need to run a third, smaller line, from the wheel well back to the pan if I use a bypass. The only thing I haven't figured out is whether to leave the coolant cooler in the loop or let the new oil to air cooler do all the work.
From what I've read I should take the stock oil to coolant exchanger out of the loop because I live in a relatively mild climate. But leaving the stock ecchanger will help to bring the tranny fluid up to temp sooner. Since I'm also installing a tranny temp gauge I suppose I can try it both ways and go from there.
I wanted to go with a TP filter on the tranny but Ralph hasn't answered my emails. Unless I hear from him my cash is gonna have to go elsewhere.
[ October 14, 2005, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: chenobylite ]
My problem was I thought the restrictor was for the filter and not for the other stream but thanks to olympic's explanation I now see the light. It still seems strange to me a TP would flow so much it'd need a restrictor to avoid starving the other stream though. I would've thought the entire point of it's dense media was to limit flow but who am I too argue. Course, if I'm still confused I'm sure someone will straighten me out
The problem is the car I'm dealing with has an odd setup. From rear to front the engine is most rearward, the final drive is next, and the auto tranny is closest to the front of the car. The radiator is also in the front. The tranny now has a oil to coolant heat exchanger located in the rear of the car. I want to add a oil to air cooler and a bypass filter. The only place I have for a filter (either full flow or bypass) is behind the left front wheel up in the well.
So I need to run lines from the rear of the car to front and back. I also need to run a third, smaller line, from the wheel well back to the pan if I use a bypass. The only thing I haven't figured out is whether to leave the coolant cooler in the loop or let the new oil to air cooler do all the work.
From what I've read I should take the stock oil to coolant exchanger out of the loop because I live in a relatively mild climate. But leaving the stock ecchanger will help to bring the tranny fluid up to temp sooner. Since I'm also installing a tranny temp gauge I suppose I can try it both ways and go from there.
I wanted to go with a TP filter on the tranny but Ralph hasn't answered my emails. Unless I hear from him my cash is gonna have to go elsewhere.
[ October 14, 2005, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: chenobylite ]
sounds like you and I are doing the same thing-- you just have more realestate to cover.
I know it's gonna cost-- but I'd HIGHLY advise using stainless-steel braided line, of tha appropriate material to stand the type of fluid and pressure you're going to be running. the stainless braid looks great- but that's not the point. Strength and protection fot the lifeblood of your engine and transmission, is.
ft gets you the good stuff. Add in a couple AN or JIC fittings and you're in like Flynn.
I know it's gonna cost-- but I'd HIGHLY advise using stainless-steel braided line, of tha appropriate material to stand the type of fluid and pressure you're going to be running. the stainless braid looks great- but that's not the point. Strength and protection fot the lifeblood of your engine and transmission, is.
ft gets you the good stuff. Add in a couple AN or JIC fittings and you're in like Flynn.
I've been all over SS hose lately, everything from Aeroquip to Earl's. It's not just the hose that'll kill the budget, it's the fittings. I'm going to need lots of them. I own two aircraft so I know how how expensive AN stuff can be.
At this point It looks like I'm gonna use 316 or 304 hard tubing under the car to run up front and Earl's Auto-Flex for the flexible sections. It's over kill as the pressures aren't really that great but I agree, I want integrity in this mod. And the car is a modified DMC-12 so SS fits right in.
At this point It looks like I'm gonna use 316 or 304 hard tubing under the car to run up front and Earl's Auto-Flex for the flexible sections. It's over kill as the pressures aren't really that great but I agree, I want integrity in this mod. And the car is a modified DMC-12 so SS fits right in.
up, we certainly think a lot alike
have you considered some of the aircraft salvage fittings available on Ebay? Bought an assortment of them a few months back-- 20 connectors from -4 to -12s, for $75, shipping included. They were reusable swivels, so a little time measuring what I needed and shortening this one, disassembling that one, paid off in spades.
Also-- JIC fittings are the same 37deg flare and threading, but made in steel. So they're a bit heavier, yes, but lots cheaper generally.
My fascination with them has been mainly born out of blowing a trans cooler line off [poor quality hose claps holding rubber line on unflared hardline, as per instructions-- I didn't know any better at the time] my transmission 3 times in two weeks a few months back and wanting to make sure that never happened again. This is all in a 4X4 Blazer that sees trail use, and I don't like being stranded.
have you considered some of the aircraft salvage fittings available on Ebay? Bought an assortment of them a few months back-- 20 connectors from -4 to -12s, for $75, shipping included. They were reusable swivels, so a little time measuring what I needed and shortening this one, disassembling that one, paid off in spades.
Also-- JIC fittings are the same 37deg flare and threading, but made in steel. So they're a bit heavier, yes, but lots cheaper generally.
My fascination with them has been mainly born out of blowing a trans cooler line off [poor quality hose claps holding rubber line on unflared hardline, as per instructions-- I didn't know any better at the time] my transmission 3 times in two weeks a few months back and wanting to make sure that never happened again. This is all in a 4X4 Blazer that sees trail use, and I don't like being stranded.
I like overkill. I have noticed that a winter load of wood has little or no effect on the temperature but a hot day makes me think about putting the heater on high to knock the edge off. The 36k warranty period is almost over so I am planning my projects as Christmas gifts for the truck.
I think that's a good idea if the oil flows from the cooler into the transmission oil pan. Another possibility is to tee off the pressure test port and use a flow restrictor (smaller than for engine oil) to regulate flow. Depending on the maximum pressure & since you don't need much flow anyway, you could get away with a 1/32" orifice (assuming 160 psi max pressure).
Now, a question to all you transmission TP filterers:
Has anyone observed transmission wear particles shed from the transmission that are larger than 1/32" in diameter?
Hmmm, Maybe a few 1/16" restrictors in series would prevent them from plugging up.
I don't think that teo 1/16" orifices in series = 1/32" if that's what you're asking. I think it equals 1/16"...
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I agree with the use of the SS line for its added durability against insult ...but I don't like the AN fittings ..or rather the typical compression fit that most of us are forced to use. With mulitple connections ...it could end up being a long term maintenance nightmare. I've had cause to silicon all the fittings to assure that they didn't seep or weep over the long term. Very annoying for someone who likes to "SET IT (engineer/design/install) AND FORGET IT!!".
I'd rather have custom non-SS hose made up at a hydraulic shop then do an installation with those aluminum AN compression collars. I'd even prefer hose barbs and hose clamps over SS hose instead of compression AN fittings/collars.
Don't get me wrong. If you're a go fast type that is pulling your engine with a dry sump on it every two seasons anyway ..sure..you're screwing with the thing every day or two during race season ..but to the guy who wants to NOT tinker with a never ending story ...I don't think they're all that they are cracked up to be.
I see where you're coming from, Gary- but I have to wonder if maybe you might have misassembled the connections?
No offense intended, it's just been my experience that the things don't tend to budge. If there's a problem with vibration loosening the connection, it can always be safety-wired in place.
No offense intended, it's just been my experience that the things don't tend to budge. If there's a problem with vibration loosening the connection, it can always be safety-wired in place.
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I understand your questioning here
. The assembly was done by my friend/wrench/engine builder. He knows I can do it ..but he's so much better at doing everything that it bothers him to watch me work. There were no "leaks" per se` ..just seepage and weapage. I've never had that with barbs and clamps ..ever. Now I surely like my prefabbed braided hoses with a fixed NPT on one end and a swivel fitting on the other end that mates to the JIC/AN to NPT adapter. I don't mind unclad prefabbed hose in the same configuration either.
I really like the look of the ss hose ..but for me, in future permanent installs ..I'll mock them up with heater hose and have a hydraulic shop fab them up.
I really like the look of the ss hose ..but for me, in future permanent installs ..I'll mock them up with heater hose and have a hydraulic shop fab them up.
Place the restrictor on the outlet of the filter and you wont have to worry about that. Nothing but clean oil will ever pass through the orafice. I'm not sure how the TP filters are setup but this is how Amsoil does it with their bypass mounts.
The Long LPD coolers use a method, which, while not a thermostat, uses the viscosity of the ATF to by-pass the cooler until it reaches operating temp. From my experience this seems to be about 180F.
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