Fill battery with water

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: ram_man
You guys are assuming I do not know what I am talking about . I'm not going to say I know everything but my dad had his eye blown out when I was very young by a battery and we have stacks and stacks of paper work from batt manufacturers and tons of information that most people do not know anything about.

No no, I don't think we're completely disagreeing with you. Of course, there have been injuries. That's a big part of why the procedures are written the way they are these days. And, as I pointed out, it's rare when someone actually has to muddle with a battery.

Taxi service is a situation where one should check electrolyte levels periodically. The batteries face more heat than the batteries in a normal Saskatchewan vehicle, plus there is some extra load on the battery and charging system.

I, too, have had batteries last extremely long. My F-150 is on the second battery since I got the truck, and the LTD I had years ago was the only other one for which I had to purchase a battery. Snowmobiles and motorcycles are different, though. Their batteries are garbage.

I don't fuss with the fluid in a battery in a personal vehicle unless I'm having some symptom. But that is a different case than taxi service, and batteries have improved over the years. I think it would be very hard to buy battery electrolyte these days.

 

[SHOZ]

If the caps can come off they are not maintenance free but low maintenance. As said before it is more an avenue for increased sales for you to let your battery fail do to the electrolyte level.

When the level drops, assuming the acid is not leaking out at the post, it is because the water is driven off and the acid gets stronger. This stronger acid will destroy the grids over time and will also show higher open circuit voltage. If the acid has leaked out then adding water will lower the electrolyte strength and which will lower the capacity and open circuit voltage.

Valve regulated recombinate batteries are truly sealed and the H2 and O2 do not leave the cells but combine to form water and this maintains the electrolyte strength. They usually have a 10 psi pressure relief valve built into the top somewhere, usually under the top where they fill them.

The biggest change over the years has been the grid alloys. These minimize the resistance inside the cell and reduce any gassing. The glass mat ones are good for vibration and better acid to plate contact.

.

 

[ram_man]

Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Originally Posted By: ram_man
I'm not going to say I know everything but my dad had his eye blown out when I was very young by a battery


WOW! How did that happen? Nevermind, if you don't want to talk about it. Was this a maintenance free battery that he tried to pry open? That's a pretty big deal.


basically yes. he like everyone does about one thing or another assumes what they know is correct. and it was a battery in a power car type thing but it had caps and he would check it well one time he was checking it he did something to create static electricity and boom! like I said taking the caps off creates an issue where it wont seal as well often times and that can cause it to be more explosive. I remember flying across the back room of the house into the back of the living room wall 14ft to be exact. he told my mother before driving himself to the hospital that he would be home for dinner. his eye was hanging out of his head. he obviously didn't make it to dinner and is permanently blind in that eye.
there are batteries that are supposed to be maintenanced and then there are batteries than can be opened but don't NEED to be.
why people insist on checking a battery by opening it up when its not necessary or NEEDED is beyond me. do an overall inspection is the battery clean how's the voltage,does it pass a load test. if it shows good on all the tests why mess with it?

I don't understand why you would mess with something that isn't needed to be. its beyond me I guess. I maintenance everything. door hinges, lawn mower blades every 3rd use with a [censored] file, I have never had a battery fail from a lack of maintenance.

 

[ram_man]

Only if they are an idiot. A battery with removable caps will have the caps easily removable. If they don't easily come off, they probably aren't meant to come off. This isn't rocket science.....


overkill did you read the first couple posts about using a screw driver??

 

[ram_man]

Originally Posted By: kb27
My business deals with batteries. I change out batteries everyday.

Where I am, some batteries are maintenance-type where "everyone knows" to take off the cap and add water when required. There are clearly marked lines on the casing, min and max.

But not "everyone knows". There are people who even blame the dealership where they went for their servicing for not informing them to check and add water. So these batteries dry up and died.

The other type of maintenance-free batteries does not come with electrolyte level marking.
It is not expected for anyone to try and add water.

Depending on the manufacturers,
- some had the fill valves completely sealed and glued tight with another covering.
- some has plastic coverings which you can pry open easily.
- some has screw down valve which is flushed with the top.
The last one from a supplier told me they put a label on top of it, bcuz they keep getting questions from end-users whether they need to add water, but obviously it is not expected.

Of all the maintenance-free batteries I recovered, that died and are not usable, none of them I found had low electrolyte level.



thank you this makes sense.

anybody know which newer cars have maintenance style batteries?
I do not know of one. that doesn't mean there isn't any I just don't know of them.

 

[ram_man]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man


You guys are assuming I do not know what I am talking about . I'm not going to say I know everything but my dad had his eye blown out when I was very young by a battery and we have stacks and stacks of paper work from batt manufacturers and tons of information that most people do not know anything about. Also in class yes we have learned some about batteries. Today's batteries in most cars need not be messed with . And to the people who say I check my water levels and my battery lasted x amount of years . My neighbor had an interstate battery last 11 yrs never screwed with it. My sister fiancé lasted 9yrs moms fiancé battery is going on. 7yrs so this logic behind checking a maintenance free battery regularly isn't proven to lengthen the life of it. Sure in a severe condition maybe it's necessary but I'm a daily driven car it isn't needed.

Also overkill you are assuming people have the mental capacity to do so. Sure you do plenty on here do but your typical car owner doesn't know how to do it and won't do it and their batteries last just fine. If it was necessary dealers would be charging people to constantly do it. My moms car goes to a dealer for service never once have they mentioned doing it, ford doesn't even have a maintenance interval or anything regarding it. Why? Because it's maintenance free.

Bitogers in general think we know better than the engineers and manufacturers. Very seldom is that actually the case though. The mass majority of batteries today are maintenance free in a car and do not need to be messed with under normal circumstances. And have you noticed a few of you have taken slight jabs at me but provided very little evidence? I noticed it. Instead of saying I have a lack of knowledge maybe you should prove to me that the majority of batteries need to be checked. Not somehow can be but actually need to be. It simply isn't the case.
And I'm talking small equipment or large equipment batteries I am talking about passenger car batteries.


You appear to have missed the train.....

Nobody is saying that a maintenance free battery NEEDS to be checked under normal service. But many of them CAN be checked and when operated under severe heat, it may be prudent, if the batteries allows, to do that! That's all that's being argued here! Where did you get the idea that anybody was arguing that they NEEDED to be checked? Nobody has said that. Though I might add that this is typical of our discussions in the past when you were a little less calm and operating under a different alias

Your initial statement didn't allow for the leeway you've now given, which is simply the acknowledgement that "Maintenance Free" doesn't mean that the battery cannot and should not, under any circumstances, be messed with. Which is what you had originally stated.

Common ground isn't all that hard to find here. Nobody is saying people should be regularly checking the levels in their maintenance free batteries. What has been stated, and for the sake of clarity, I will re-state it, is that many maintenance free batteries allow for the electrolyte levels to be checked. If somebody is mechanically inclined and wishes to check the levels on these batteries, there is nothing wrong with that and various manufacturers encourage it, especially when operated under extreme heat where loss of electrolyte may occur.

There are batteries that are sealed, and thus cannot be checked. And that's fine. Nobody is encouraging anybody to attempt to crack those puppies open. However the OP's battery was not of that variety and the level COULD be easily checked. Even though the result of that endeavour was that the fluid level was fine and he simply left it alone.

This is your initial statement in this thread:

Originally Posted By: ram_man
ok tons of bad advice here. that battery appears to be a maintenance free! you do not add to those when they are done they are done. where you were prying on those (caps) are actually vents and if you pried them off you effectively screwed it up. GET A NEW BATTERY!
if you want to see if the battery will accept a charge do a 3 minute quick charge. the battery should go below 15.5 volts if it is good above that and its sulfated. however prying off those vent caps is a bad thing!


And it is wrong. It is wrong because it is an absolute statement with respect to this type of battery and one cannot be made because there are several varieties of battery that fall under this classification, many of which are designed to allow the electrolyte levels to be checked and many that aren't. You've now acknowledged that for the most part so we can move on.


in respect to the alias remark, I think it was Helen who I discussed this with a while back. the story is a little more complex than you think, but to keep it short my identity was used before I actually joined the site by a guy in one of my previous college classes who originally told me about the site. I did join mainly because of him, although I did used to read on here frequently. I didn't know it at the time but he basically put everything he ever knew about me on here. kind of a creep actually!!

 

[gaijinnv]

Originally Posted By: ram_man


anybody know which newer cars have maintenance style batteries?
I do not know of one. that doesn't mean there isn't any I just don't know of them.


I'm sure there are many, but here is the battery in my 2013 Toyota Land Cruiser:

If you look closely, you can see the "HIGH" and "LOW" witness marks on the front of the battery for monitoring liquid level. It has six easily removable caps and it is easy to add distilled water as required to maintain proper levels.

 

[JHZR2]

Very nice. Love those Panasonic batteries - it's a 10 yr battery there!

 

[ram_man]

Originally Posted By: gaijinnv
Originally Posted By: ram_man


anybody know which newer cars have maintenance style batteries?
I do not know of one. that doesn't mean there isn't any I just don't know of them.


I'm sure there are many, but here is the battery in my 2013 Toyota Land Cruiser:

If you look closely, you can see the "HIGH" and "LOW" witness marks on the front of the battery for monitoring liquid level. It has six easily removable caps and it is easy to add distilled water as required to maintain proper levels.

thank you for the picture. that is a battery than can be maintenance obviously. easy removable caps for each cell. an obvious difference from a maintenance free.

 

[wirelessF]

I have a VW OEM 95R/H9 battery on the side with removeable vent caps and water level case:

 

[SHOZ]

I have yet to see a sealed maintenance free battery come in a car OEM.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Likely a price issue, but really no car starting battery can be completely sealed, only partially. Thus really not at all. These days in our trucks the batteries truly NEVER get touched at all during their 5-7 year lifespan in our typical pattern.

When I was a kid I blew a battery up right in my face in an old positive ground TR-4. Woke up sitting on the ground with folks trying to help me up. Thank GOD the emergency room Doctor decided to treat me without permission as my parents were on the road to another state, no cell phones back then.

Even with most of its outer case blown clear across the street it still started the next day!

 

[wally6934]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Likely a price issue, but really no car starting battery can be completely sealed, only partially. Thus really not at all. These days in our trucks the batteries truly NEVER get touched at all during their 5-7 year lifespan in our typical pattern.

When I was a kid I blew a battery up right in my face in an old positive ground TR-4. Woke up sitting on the ground with folks trying to help me up. Thank GOD the emergency room Doctor decided to treat me without permission as my parents were on the road to another state, no cell phones back then.

Even with most of its outer case blown clear across the street it still started the next day!


Do you know why the battery blew up?

 

[ram_man]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I have yet to see a sealed maintenance free battery come in a car OEM.



Uhhh really? I've seen a lot.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: ram_man
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I have yet to see a sealed maintenance free battery come in a car OEM.



Uhhh really? I've seen a lot.


I haven't they all have some sort of cap you can remove to get to the electrolyte. At least on Ford and Hyundai.

I do think my son's Malibu has a sealed on. Can't remember though.

 

[DBMaster]

It's been a long time, but the Delco "Freedom" batteries that used to be OEM in GM cars (and, in my 89 Ohio built Honda Accord) did not have removable caps. Aside from the Optima Red Top, they were the longest lasting batteries for the Accord. (I purchased a commercial version from a local battery dealer once for that car).

I am totally sold on AGM batteries, btw.

 

[SHOZ]

I use the Odysseys. They last longer than my cars.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ram_man
Only if they are an idiot. A battery with removable caps will have the caps easily removable. If they don't easily come off, they probably aren't meant to come off. This isn't rocket science.....


overkill did you read the first couple posts about using a screw driver??


Yes, and it is a common thing to use on batteries that are "low maintenance" because sometimes the caps can be hard to wiggle free initially. So the comment didn't phase me, though I could see how somebody could interpret that as "forcing" the caps off a battery that was not meant to be dug into. Which I assume is what you are getting at.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ram_man


in respect to the alias remark, I think it was Helen who I discussed this with a while back. the story is a little more complex than you think, but to keep it short my identity was used before I actually joined the site by a guy in one of my previous college classes who originally told me about the site. I did join mainly because of him, although I did used to read on here frequently. I didn't know it at the time but he basically put everything he ever knew about me on here. kind of a creep actually!!


Well I obviously don't know the details of that interaction, but the person I'm thinking of had an absolutely identical writing style to you and made the same grammar and spelling errors. He was just a bit more feisty

 

[ram_man]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man


in respect to the alias remark, I think it was Helen who I discussed this with a while back. the story is a little more complex than you think, but to keep it short my identity was used before I actually joined the site by a guy in one of my previous college classes who originally told me about the site. I did join mainly because of him, although I did used to read on here frequently. I didn't know it at the time but he basically put everything he ever knew about me on here. kind of a creep actually!!


Well I obviously don't know the details of that interaction, but the person I'm thinking of had an absolutely identical writing style to you and made the same grammar and spelling errors. He was just a bit more feisty

well I did buy a tablet from him. that was the whole ip address thing I had to explain. it was hard to type correctly on that thing! I just sold it and have a laptop now but I do still use my cell phone on here frequently.
I guess its good that the real me isn't as feisty.

about batteries my best advice is there are some that have removable caps but some have those so called caps and aren't designed to be messed with.
so the best conclusion is if you are going to pop open your battery check with the manufacturer on the proper procedure ect.