Fiat Chrysler close to merging with Renault.

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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by fdcg27
So merge one failing automaker with another?
Sounds like a plan!
The failure of the merged entity will help to reduce the chronic overcapacity that has plagued the industry through all of its history.
The industry as a whole has never had much pricing power as a consequence of over-capacity, which is the reason that the sticker price of any vehicle is more of a LOL number than the start of any serious negotiation for any halfway savvy buyer.
This is why new cars can be bought so cheaply with cheap or free financing or giveaway lease deals as a part of the package.
Gotta try to move the excess quantities of iron since markets must clear.


They want to retain capacity in Europe especially rather than reduce it. Unfortunately this industry, being highly regulated, has a political component to every major decision like this.


An admirable goal, since maintaining industrial capacity as well as well compensated hourly jobs seems a nice idea.
Europe already has an 800 lb gorilla, though, based in a far more financially able country that France or Italy.
There's also the matter of where the growth is, and it isn't in the shrinking and aging population of the EU.
Then there's the next major competitive threat to come and I think we all know where this will come from.
Heritage means little when a new brand comes along offering compelling products at a compelling price, as Toyota showed with Lexus.
If the Chinese do it right and not simply cheap there will be a considerable need for industrial worker retraining in both North America and the EU.
Technical expertise is easily purchased from a worldwide talent pool while the new entrants learn and develop their own.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
It probably looked good in theory but the actual product hasn't benefited at all.


The products have benefited significantly. Go sit in a Mercedes-era Charger and then a Fiat-era one and compare the interior materials selection, fit and finish, design...etc. My Jeep interior is a direct result of the Fiat acquisition. The current RAM interior, which is best-in-class, is yet another example.

The current styling for the Charger, Durango, Grand Cherokee, the new 2019 RAM....etc. All developed under the current umbrella and are significantly sharper than their predecessors.

The current Jeep Cherokee's development, and success, has also been as a result of this marriage.

It hasn't been perfect of course. Cars like the Dart/200 drag down the brand reliability ratings. And there are others like certain Jeep products and Dodge ones like the Journey, that haven't helped in that department either.
 
I find it really odd that this is being worked on.

Renault bought into AMC to gain access to the NA market, but it just ended up costing them a lot of money, and caused them a lot of problems at home with having to close plants and lay off workers.

Renault was desperate to get out of its tie-up with AMC, and basically dumped them on Chrysler. Although it was a long time ago, you'd think they would remember that and run from a merger with the company that is looking for a partner bc it's NA sales are down.
 
Dacia Logan rebadged as a Chrysler. Dacia Duster another new Jeep ! Dacia Sandero the new hodgepodge Dodge. I just had a vision.

All very interesting.

I'll keep what I have.
 
Too bad Nissan wouldnt be part of it.

Imagine a Hellcat GTR.
banana2.gif
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by PimTac
It probably looked good in theory but the actual product hasn't benefited at all.


The products have benefited significantly. Go sit in a Mercedes-era Charger and then a Fiat-era one and compare the interior materials selection, fit and finish, design...etc. My Jeep interior is a direct result of the Fiat acquisition. The current RAM interior, which is best-in-class, is yet another example.

The current styling for the Charger, Durango, Grand Cherokee, the new 2019 RAM....etc. All developed under the current umbrella and are significantly sharper than their predecessors.

The current Jeep Cherokee's development, and success, has also been as a result of this marriage.

It hasn't been perfect of course. Cars like the Dart/200 drag down the brand reliability ratings. And there are others like certain Jeep products and Dodge ones like the Journey, that haven't helped in that department either.


This. My 300 has been great so far, and we are loving our van. Even my parents 2007 Caliber and 2013 200 has been treating them great
21.gif
 
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Well, one could argue that the Fiat Chrysler combo at least brought some complementary skill sets, since Fiat brought small car and small diesel expertise to the marriage while Chrysler had and has some very good large RWD platforms as well as good and even iconic SUVs.
It also appeared that Fiat would bring competent management, although that was never really apparent in practice.

That's all true, but I do have to get my digs in somehow. I would wonder what Sergio's thoughts would have been on this. I'd think he would have been involved somehow already before his death; this couldn't have turned up overnight.
 
I think Nissan going their own way and pairing up with Mitsubishi would be a good thing especially for Nissan.
The Japanese know that they need to go back to their roots and recreate what made them so great back from the 1960s-1990s.

FCA needs new technology and Renault has that in spades, along with great and efficient cars which FCA has none. This paring will do well.

Fact is that today Renault quality is pretty darn good and they make very nice and desirable models now.
I remember the Fuego, R 18i, Le Car (R5), Alliance (R9), Encore (R11), Medallion (R21) and Premier (25) and most of these were really nice cars,
and good to drive, with reliability good in some and not so good in others..I almost bought a new Fuego 2.2L but at the last minute bought the
Rabbit GTI instead.
 
Originally Posted by AC1DD
I think Nissan going their own way and pairing up with Mitsubishi would be a good thing especially for Nissan.
The Japanese know that they need to go back to their roots and recreate what made them so great back from the 1960s-1990s.

.




I agree. Look at Mazda and how far they have come with the divorce from Ford and the tie up with Toyota.
 
Originally Posted by GZRider
The best Nissans of the past 10-15 years were the ones built in Japan as far away from Renault and their parts as possible, do with that what you will.


No JATCO CVT'S there???
I don't think so.
 
Originally Posted by zzyzzx
Originally Posted by GZRider
The best Nissans of the past 10-15 years were the ones built in Japan as far away from Renault and their parts as possible, do with that what you will.


No JATCO CVT'S there???
I don't think so.


This is the weakest part of Nissan products in my view, the fact is that the basic CVT design in and of itself is weak and naturally have less durability when compared to even a modest quality traditional geared automatic. Nissan ought to cut its losses with CVT and return to the reliable and better alternative of traditional geared slush boxes. The consumers have spoken on this and for some reason these companies aren't getting it. A lot of customers will cross a CVT equipped model off their shopping list even if the rest of the product is GREAT. I've done this.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by AC1DD
I think Nissan going their own way and pairing up with Mitsubishi would be a good thing especially for Nissan.
The Japanese know that they need to go back to their roots and recreate what made them so great back from the 1960s-1990s.

.




I agree. Look at Mazda and how far they have come with the divorce from Ford and the tie up with Toyota.



Look at Ford and how far they have come with the divorce from Mazda lol
 
Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by AC1DD
I think Nissan going their own way and pairing up with Mitsubishi would be a good thing especially for Nissan.
The Japanese know that they need to go back to their roots and recreate what made them so great back from the 1960s-1990s.

.




I agree. Look at Mazda and how far they have come with the divorce from Ford and the tie up with Toyota.



Look at Ford and how far they have come with the divorce from Mazda lol

Mazda was no where near drag on Ford as Ford was on Mazda, mostly drag on quality.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw

Mazda was no where near drag on Ford as Ford was on Mazda, mostly drag on quality.


Mazda had some real junk long before that marriage.
 
Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by zzyzzx
Originally Posted by GZRider
The best Nissans of the past 10-15 years were the ones built in Japan as far away from Renault and their parts as possible, do with that what you will.


No JATCO CVT'S there???
I don't think so.


This is the weakest part of Nissan products in my view, the fact is that the basic CVT design in and of itself is weak and naturally have less durability when compared to even a modest quality traditional geared automatic. Nissan ought to cut its losses with CVT and return to the reliable and better alternative of traditional geared slush boxes. The consumers have spoken on this and for some reason these companies aren't getting it. A lot of customers will cross a CVT equipped model off their shopping list even if the rest of the product is GREAT. I've done this.






Funny in a small way^^^^^

I have 268k miles on my CVT transmission in combination with a 3.5 L motor... In fact the very strong majority of issues have been with the 2.5s and the cvts..

The later generation of CVTs after my car did have a fair amount of problems. That has been true.
 
Originally Posted by dishdude
Originally Posted by edyvw

Mazda was no where near drag on Ford as Ford was on Mazda, mostly drag on quality.


Mazda had some real junk long before that marriage.


Rust/Rot boxes well past the Ford marriage.
 
Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by AC1DD
I think Nissan going their own way and pairing up with Mitsubishi would be a good thing especially for Nissan.
The Japanese know that they need to go back to their roots and recreate what made them so great back from the 1960s-1990s.

.




I agree. Look at Mazda and how far they have come with the divorce from Ford and the tie up with Toyota.



Look at Ford and how far they have come with the divorce from Mazda lol


Yep-they (Ford) is basically a truck company.
 
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