FF to GG Pads Cause Problems?

[doitmyself]

Without changing the rear pad friction rating, will increasing the OEM front FF brake pads to GG cause any handling or safety problems? Can someone explain why? The Jeep Patriot has ABS and OEM rear drums with only EE rating.

New front pad examples I have in mind are EBC Ultimax2 (black) or Raybestos EHT with GG ratings (daily driver pads, not performance). The OEM front pads are Akebono ceramic FF, but the aftermarket Akebonos are different (pad shape).

Thanks!

 

[CharBaby]

What vehicle?
I don't like GG Coefficient of Friction(CoF) pads.
EE for the rear shoes are OK but, may squeal now & again when wet(after car washing or driving through puddles) but, their grap/bite is good/aggressive and are often ORGANIC Friction Material.

GG CoF just don't seem to give me the bite that I prefer in everyday-ness/normal-ness.
But, they may in fact work better than FF when being used HARD or in a way that I don't drive. Some like them, I don't !

If the Akebono have a different shape to the pads, they may be for a different application(like the next trim level up w/optional pads). But, I have always had good success with Akebono ProACT with a CoF of FF.
IMO, they feel like OEM which is my preference.

 

[doitmyself]

Char Baby, was your negative experience of GG pads with daily driver pads or performance pads? From my limited internet reading, daily driver pads are supposed to be balanced to give "good" bite both cold and hot. Stepping up to performance pads might give slightly less cold performance but better hot performance. Very broad generalizations based on studying lots of reviews.

The Akebono aftermarket fronts are the only ones available for all models, 2007 - 2017.

Jeep Patriot. LOL, I'm still sensitive to admitting I have a Patriot. At 6 years, it has been very low cost of ownership, very easy to maintain, very much a KISS vehicle, which is my priority. Lots of improvements from the 1st. generation and none of the high technology problems so many other cars are experiencing.

 

[CharBaby]

Just the everyday/daily driver stuff. Either from Rock Auto, AAP, AZ, PBs etc. Even using their WearEver, ProLine, DuraLast etc. Gold or Plat's etc(whatever). Sometimes I didn't know till I opened the box when I got home that they were GG(not FF).

And also, this is even before I knew better and/or the difference between the two CoF's.
I would installed them and after driving for several days, I didn't like them due to their lack of good braking feel...or what I would consider "NORMAL".

 

[slacktide_bitog]

There will be no problems

 

[spk2000]

When I worked at Akebono we made quite a few OE brake pads and aftermarket were purposely designed different with a slight change in pad material. The design change is so we would not mix up the OE and aftermarket. Service pads from dealer were usually very close to OE if not exact.

 

[DzoG20]

will it be a problem - no, optimal? - also no.

I have 1 channel ABS on my DD and had several combination (front,rear) with EE,FF,GG pads.
ABS always works (turns on). But to check how well the brakes on different wheels are matched - you will need to measure it with appropriate equipment. Some time ago at some places the vehicle inspection included brakes check - the car is on dyno and you slam on the brakes.
When I do care about optimal performance for panic stops - I put a complete set of pads front & rear.

 

[HangFire]

Older Honda Pilots spec was upgraded from FF to GG with only good results. I am getting spectacular service out of a set of GG AdaptiveOne pads on the front now. Smooth, quiet, good bit, and the discs look like mirrors.

How well a pad works depends on a large number of manufacturing choices, not just pad material or heat rating.

 

[CharBaby]

We'll never know how a brake pad will perform albeit FF of GG until we get'em on the car. This is the way it is. We could get lucky with others recommendations...or not!

 

[JTK]

Man you guys are picky!

FedEx just dropped off my $48 pair of rear rotors and pads for my minivan.

Our 6 months of winter is so rough on brakes for my use, I've found brand of pads, rotors, etc, makes little/no difference.

 

[doitmyself]

That's very true Charbaby. Akebono's get huge praise here, but there are some experienced people like The Critic that post less than stellar reviews of them. DanErickson in NW Indiana posted initial praise of the EHT's, but said after a several thousand miles they seemed to lose some of the initial bite that he liked.


JTK, I never used to be this picky. Autozone or AAP were my usual sources and I have always been against mail order for parts like this because of the difficulty if you have to do a return. As I get older, I have changed. I would rather spend more up front for a better product and fewer brake changes (hopefully) vs. cheap and frequent changes. But, there are huge variables in what the outcome is. Looking at coated rotors, buying the "better" ones is not much more expensive than coated store brand ones. And, I am not as much a tightwad as I used to be. An extra $50 spread out over 5 years is not that big of an expense. It's fun to change things up sometimes too. There is no rhyme or reason to the lunacy. The important thing is to not put too much seriousness into any of this, without sacrificing safety of course.

 

[JTK]

^ I'm with ya doitmyself.

The issue I've had over the years is I've had such a mixed bag of results with premium pads/rotors vs. cheap white box no-name stuff, I don't rely anymore on one particular brand and tend to just go cheap. If I'm doing a brake job for someone else, I won't do this unless they specifically request cheap.

What I've experienced is going premium parts X, for make and model Y Z vehicle will have drastically different results on another make/model vehicle.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by doitmyself
That's very true Charbaby. Akebono's get huge praise here, but there are some experienced people like The Critic that post less than stellar reviews of them. DanErickson in NW Indiana posted initial praise of the EHT's, but said after a several thousand miles they seemed to lose some of the initial bite that he liked.

I think these days with brakes, it's a crapshoot. I've had better luck with Akebono than Wagner or Chinese-made Bendix, but OEM is still best from a performance perspective. However, I like Wagners on American cars and never had a problem with TQs on a Ford and Chevy.

A lot of friction in the aftermarket unless it's Japanese OEM is from China or India these days - MAT bought the rights to Bendix from Honeywell and their pads look a lot like the ones they supply Advance, AZ and O'Reilly with. There was a time when Bendix was considered a safe choice, with all the parts store junk of the 1980s-1990s. BPI who makes Raybestos and Napa brakes also moved production to China, they used to be American or Canadian made.

 

[zmelli]

I run Akebono ASP GG-Rated Pads with good results in both cold and hot conditions. Most problems with other pads is fitment. I had some pads that would not go up to the edge of the rotor (Too short) causing a ridge over time. I have had good results with NISSIN and ADVICS FF Pads.

 

[edyvw]

Just the everyday/daily driver stuff. Either from Rock Auto, AAP, AZ, PBs etc. Even using their WearEver, ProLine, DuraLast etc. Gold or Plat's etc(whatever). Sometimes I didn't know till I opened the box when I got home that they were GG(not FF).

And also, this is even before I knew better and/or the difference between the two CoF's.
I would installed them and after driving for several days, I didn't like them due to their lack of good braking feel...or what I would consider "NORMAL".

Everyday/daily driver is not the same for everyone.
I had once Akebono Euro GG pads and I would not put them on a car if someone paid me to.
ATE has now semi-metallic pads that are GG and GF.
But generally, FF pads in my experience combined with GG are going to wear out prematurely as they have more aggressive bite.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Had no problems with GG pads wearing out too early.

 

[bbhero]

Me neither ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The Akebono street performance pads I had on my car's front went a long long time.

 

[Tman220]

Whatever you do, if you increase the friction coefficient of only the front you will in affect increase your front brake bias, depending on the specific vehicle this can be a good thing or bad thing, usually a bad thing. I would recommend doing this only if you have a vehicle that tends to lock up the rear first already, or if you increase the friction coefficient of the rear brakes as well. usually its more difficult to find high friction coefficient brake shoes from my experience.

 

[edyvw]

Had no problems with GG pads wearing out too early.

No, I said FF would wear out early bcs. more aggressive compared to GG. Should be more specific.

 

[edyvw]

Whatever you do, if you increase the friction coefficient of only the front you will in affect increase your front brake bias, depending on the specific vehicle this can be a good thing or bad thing, usually a bad thing. I would recommend doing this only if you have a vehicle that tends to lock up the rear first already, or if you increase the friction coefficient of the rear brakes as well. usually its more difficult to find high friction coefficient brake shoes from my experience.

This. I once had FF in front and GG in back. Bias was OK, but FF were gone in no time.