Ferrari F430 oil

[f355spider]

Not about a Ferrari - it's about saving money by getting an oil that doesn't meet his desired specification.

So, he's compromising on the oil so that he can get it replaced free, rather than getting what he wanted.

That's not saving money.

That's making a mistake.

Doesn't matter who made the car, buying an oil that doesn't meet spec to save money is never a good idea.

People select oils that are not exactly following manufacturer specifications everyday. We see it on this forum even...all the time.

Here's the spec, if the oil he chooses from FCP Euro meets this, you will approve? Or is returning it to FCP Euro still offensive to you?

https://evosupplygroupcatalog.sfo3.digitaloceanspaces.com/brands/files/Pennzoil/550051259-pds.pdf

 

[Indyxc]

I've asked this quesiton before, with similiar results as this thread. I actually had to ask a few forms members here directly, and other oil knowledgeable people.

If you're after 5w40 oils for street use and some track use from FCP euro, I would say in order of best to better:
1. Driven DI40
2. Driven DT40
3. Motul Xcess Gen 2

There are others, Motul 300V, Liqui Moly (Molygen, Synthoil, Leichlauf), some other specific brands. 300V is a great track oil, wear results with Liqui Moly on Porsches are poor. Redline would be good, but it's never in stock in 5w40. I do wish they stock HPL oils, but they dont.

Driven Di40 was my choice. Running it both of my non daily drivers (GT3 RS and N55 BMW)

And FCP euro return works. I use them for oil, but buy other parts from them at a higher profit margin, because their convient, and if it fails I'll exchange it for another. For example I bought Porsche center lock from them. After 3-5 years the anodizing fades. I'll exchange them for new ones. Plus with 2 cars that share a lot of the same fluids, it's a win-win cost saver. Paging our local FCP saleman @TiGeo to defend their honor.

 

[edyvw]

I've asked this quesiton before, with similiar results as this thread. I actually had to ask a few forms members here directly, and other oil knowledgeable people.

If you're after 5w40 oils for street use and some track use from FCP euro, I would say in order of best to better:
1. Driven DI40
2. Driven DT40
3. Motul Xcess Gen 2

There are others, Motul 300V, Liqui Moly (Molygen, Synthoil, Leichlauf), some other specific brands. 300V is a great track oil, wear results with Liqui Moly on Porsches are poor. Redline would be good, but it's never in stock in 5w40. I do wish they stock HPL oils, but they dont.

Driven Di40 was my choice. Running it both of my non daily drivers (GT3 RS and N55 BMW)

And FCP euro return works. I use them for oil, but buy other parts from them at a higher profit margin, because their convient, and if it fails I'll exchange it for another. For example I bought Porsche center lock from them. After 3-5 years the anodizing fades. I'll exchange them for new ones. Plus with 2 cars that share a lot of the same fluids, it's a win-win cost saver. Paging our local FCP saleman @TiGeo to defend their honor.

Motul 300V is not track oil. It is racing oil. I would not use it unless the car sees most miles on track, not street. It returns great UOA, but UOA cannot tell you the whole story.
Motul X-Cess GEN2 is excellent oil, but would not be my first choice. Yes, I use it a lot, but that is bcs. I had like 40qt on the shelf. I would go in this case with Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 before any Euro off-the-shelf oil. It has exceptional HTHS, very low Noack,
HPL Euro 5W40 would be my choice if going exotics, and HPL BAS 5W40 if going track/racing oil. BAS is absolutely streetable oil.
300V would be my top pick, but that is if the vehicle is a track weapon.
Here is the thing, it is an expensive machine, and using unsuitable oil like 300V just bcs. It is racing and expensive, and one can get every other OCI almost free, but that does not mean it is the best investment.
I would shop honestly with HPL. Dave is going to respond to OP if OP sends him a direct message.

 

[LordNilesStandish]

Motul 300V is not track oil. It is racing oil. I would not use it unless the car sees most miles on track, not street. It returns great UOA, but UOA cannot tell you the whole story.
Motul X-Cess GEN2 is excellent oil, but would not be my first choice. Yes, I use it a lot, but that is bcs. I had like 40qt on the shelf. I would go in this case with Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 before any Euro off-the-shelf oil. It has exceptional HTHS, very low Noack,
HPL Euro 5W40 would be my choice if going exotics, and HPL BAS 5W40 if going track/racing oil. BAS is absolutely streetable oil.
300V would be my top pick, but that is if the vehicle is a track weapon.
Here is the thing, it is an expensive machine, and using unsuitable oil like 300V just bcs. It is racing and expensive, and one can get every other OCI almost free, but that does not mean it is the best investment.
I would shop honestly with HPL. Dave is going to respond to OP if OP sends him a direct message.

I imagine this particular vehicle manufacturer are somewhat discerning which products they endorse:

 

[mkiv808]

Motul 300V is not track oil. It is racing oil. I would not use it unless the car sees most miles on track, not street. It returns great UOA, but UOA cannot tell you the whole story.
Motul X-Cess GEN2 is excellent oil, but would not be my first choice. Yes, I use it a lot, but that is bcs. I had like 40qt on the shelf. I would go in this case with Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 before any Euro off-the-shelf oil. It has exceptional HTHS, very low Noack,
HPL Euro 5W40 would be my choice if going exotics, and HPL BAS 5W40 if going track/racing oil. BAS is absolutely streetable oil.
300V would be my top pick, but that is if the vehicle is a track weapon.
Here is the thing, it is an expensive machine, and using unsuitable oil like 300V just bcs. It is racing and expensive, and one can get every other OCI almost free, but that does not mean it is the best investment.
I would shop honestly with HPL. Dave is going to respond to OP if OP sends him a direct message.

PPE and Motul Xcess Gen2 have same HTHS. Not sure about Noack. I do know PPE has a very good reputation.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

They did lower ester content, increased PAO and made it more street "friendly." But again, outside of track season, I would not use it.
I mean I did use it on street, and had excellent UOA, but...

Good info, edy.

In general, Racing oils in street use are not intended for people who think just because it’s a “racing” oil, that it can easily go the same mileage/time in service as something like M1EP or other extended-drain-intended oils. Most (likely including 300V as you mentioned) have a very low starting TBN and lower antioxidants, and even with low-sulfur fuels many racing oils are not 10k+ capable. This is definitely an area where even I would UOA early and often to make sure one is not inviting corrosion or other mayhem into their engine, unaware of the risks.

 

[edyvw]

PPE and Motul Xcess Gen2 have same HTHS. Not sure about Noack. I do know PPE has a very good reputation.

Current Shell Helix has Noack of 5.7%. It is function of GTL. X-Cess is Group III oil and highly unlikely that it has Noack below 9%.
X-Cess is excellent oil, but IMO, PPE is better product. However, you won’t make mistake with either.
If it was my car, HPL Euro 5W40.

 

[edyvw]

Good info, edy.

In general, Racing oils in street use are not intended for people who think just because it’s a “racing” oil, that it can easily go the same mileage/time in service as something like M1EP or other extended-drain-intended oils. Most (likely including 300V as you mentioned) have a very low starting TBN and lower antioxidants, and even with low-sulfur fuels many racing oils are not 10k+ capable. This is definitely an area where even I would UOA early and often to make sure one is not inviting corrosion or other mayhem into their engine, unaware of the risks.

Here is my UOA. It is mid-SAPS oil.
The problem are type of additives that work well at very high temperatures. In regular street use it might be an issue. I use it bcs. I had bunch of it and won’t throw it away. But I only use it in summer.

Thread 'Motul 300V 5W40 UOA 2011 BMW 328i xDrive'

Jan 14, 2025

OK, here is one interesting (I think) UOA.
Oil is Motul 300V 5W40, designed for racing purposes, and this is a current (new) formula with a bit less ester content than before (more PAO).
Specification is KV100 13.5cst and HTHS is 4.1cP.

Car was NOT tracked. Blackstone got used to me sending them samples having dual track/daily time, but not this time. I just did not have time to track. But, I was really interested in how this oil does in a strictly daily regime, considering it is racing oil.
Clearly, as this is simple UOA, not everything can be identified, but oxidation is in check...

• edyvw
• Replies: 63
• Forum: Used Oil Analysis - Gasoline

• 
• 

 

[mkiv808]

I've asked this quesiton before, with similiar results as this thread. I actually had to ask a few forms members here directly, and other oil knowledgeable people.

If you're after 5w40 oils for street use and some track use from FCP euro, I would say in order of best to better:
1. Driven DI40
2. Driven DT40
3. Motul Xcess Gen 2

There are others, Motul 300V, Liqui Moly (Molygen, Synthoil, Leichlauf), some other specific brands. 300V is a great track oil, wear results with Liqui Moly on Porsches are poor. Redline would be good, but it's never in stock in 5w40. I do wish they stock HPL oils, but they dont.

Driven Di40 was my choice. Running it both of my non daily drivers (GT3 RS and N55 BMW)

And FCP euro return works. I use them for oil, but buy other parts from them at a higher profit margin, because their convient, and if it fails I'll exchange it for another. For example I bought Porsche center lock from them. After 3-5 years the anodizing fades. I'll exchange them for new ones. Plus with 2 cars that share a lot of the same fluids, it's a win-win cost saver. Paging our local FCP saleman @TiGeo to defend their honor.

First time hearing about Driven. Will research. I was leaning toward Redline 0w40 at FCP. 4.1 HTHS and 8% NOACK.

I’ll say I’m tempted to just do Pennzoil Plat Euro as it’s $7.49 a pop at my local NAPA.

And yes, same with FCP. Have spent a load there and most parts I haven’t/won’t exchange.

 

[Indyxc]

Here is the Driven Di40 5w40 spec sheet.

4.3 HTHS, 9.9 % Noack, and MPAO base medium moly, higher ZDDP. It's a popular oil with the Porsche community. Lowest wear rates in many VOA.

Good Porsche PCNA video:

 

[Indyxc]

Good Porsche PCNA video:

 

[edyvw]

Here is the Driven Di40 5w40 spec sheet.

4.3 HTHS, 9.9 % Noack, and MPAO base medium moly, higher ZDDP. It's a popular oil with the Porsche community. Lowest wear rates in many UOA.

Good Porsche PCNA video:


View attachment 276838

Unless there is dramatic spike in UOA or increasing trend , wear rate is irrelevant. UOA is analysis of an oil, not engine.

 

[Indyxc]

Multiple folks on the Porsche forums posted results of UOAs with Driven DI40 vs. many many miles with other oils. Di40 shows lower wear metals. It's a few PPM but it's pretty consistent. Liqui Moly trends consistently higher.

Lake Speed says the same thing. He sees the lowest wear rates with Di40 in Porsches vs. universal avg.

Real science? correlation is causation, probably.

 

[Hohn]

Real science? correlation is causation, probably.

I prefer to think of it as "correlation doesn't strictly imply causation, but something cannot cause unless it correlates."

In other words, correlation may not mean it causes it, but lack of correlation 100% rules out causation.

I think I'll disagree with @edyvw on his assessment of oil analysis. I've yet to meet a doctor that says bloodwork is irrelevant and tells you nothing about the body that contained it.

The limitation of UOA is the focus on <10 micron particle range. The rate at which an engine sheds those tiny particles often tells you nothing unless the disparity is orders of magnitude. 10ppm iron vs 20 or 30 is sort a shoulder shrug. But 10ppm vs 400 or 600? Probably means something.

I'd personally find an ISO4406 particle count trend to be more useful at the typical 4, 6, and 14 micron cutoffs.

 

[Hohn]

I imagine this particular vehicle manufacturer are somewhat discerning which products they endorse:
View attachment 276642View attachment 276643

Meh, it's GTL. I personally wouldn't pay a massive premium for a prancing horse on the bottle when similar endorsement stacks are readily available:

 

[kschachn]

Unless there is dramatic spike in UOA or increasing trend , wear rate is irrelevant. UOA is analysis of an oil, not engine.

Another reason not to trust Driven and their claims.

 

[kschachn]

The limitation of UOA is the focus on <10 micron particle range. The rate at which an engine sheds those tiny particles often tells you nothing unless the disparity is orders of magnitude. 10ppm iron vs 20 or 30 is sort a shoulder shrug. But 10ppm vs 400 or 600? Probably means something.

I'd personally find an ISO4406 particle count trend to be more useful at the typical 4, 6, and 14 micron cutoffs.

It's way less than 10 microns, and it's not just a focus it is a designed limitation. The machine is protected against particles, what it is designed to see are elements in solution, not particles. Particles are harmful and disrupt the operation.

 

[scrllock]

Multiple folks on the Porsche forums posted results of UOAs with Driven DI40 vs. many many miles with other oils. Di40 shows lower wear metals. It's a few PPM but it's pretty consistent. Liqui Moly trends consistently higher.

Lake Speed says the same thing. He sees the lowest wear rates with Di40 in Porsches vs. universal avg.

Real science? correlation is causation, probably.

Can you provide links to DI40 UOAs? I searched rennlist and I didn't find much. One good UOA from a Q5 2.0T (not really a hardcore track car) and several mediocre results from Porsches where it sheared down to a 30 grade. Given it commands similar pricing as Redline, 300V and the other $17-19/qt boutiques, it seems like staying in grade is a basic ask.

In fact most of the common wisdom on this oil from the Porsche forums seems to be "oh Driven has the best UOAs, LSJ says it's the best streetable track oil, etc." but most of the posts I saw were people talking about UOAs, not UOAs themselves. And of course Lake says nice things about it, he obviously maintains a positive relationship with his former employer and he's first and foremost a salesman.

 

[Indyxc]

Long thread here.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/1187473-another-oil-analysis.html

There is a recent UOA where it's clearly not DI40 due to calcium levels, but many good ones in there.

Redline is good, but FCP doesn't stock it in 5w40 anymore. 300V is a racing oil, and for some reason it tends to throw low oil pressure warnings on some GT cars, so I shyed away from running it. DI40 to me is the best 5w40 oil FCP sells. I think there are better oils out there, but, again the question was specific to FCP.

 

[Indyxc]

I prefer to think of it as "correlation doesn't strictly imply causation, but something cannot cause unless it correlates."

In other words, correlation may not mean it causes it, but lack of correlation 100% rules out causation.

I think I'll disagree with @edyvw on his assessment of oil analysis. I've yet to meet a doctor that says bloodwork is irrelevant and tells you nothing about the body that contained it.

The limitation of UOA is the focus on <10 micron particle range. The rate at which an engine sheds those tiny particles often tells you nothing unless the disparity is orders of magnitude. 10ppm iron vs 20 or 30 is sort a shoulder shrug. But 10ppm vs 400 or 600? Probably means something.

I'd personally find an ISO4406 particle count trend to be more useful at the typical 4, 6, and 14 micron cutoffs.

This is an example of oil sample of an engine that failed. He hadn't done an oil sample before that, but I suspect the oil sample in the last few changes would of shown high iron. For me, it's cut open the oil filter, and send in an oil sample. Should give me the heads up on whats going on with the engine, and if I need to do any work to prevent a total replacement. Valve train overhaul is 2k to 10k. Total engine replacement is 40k for GT3 to 90K for GT3 RS (depending on model year) even though basically the same engine. Cheap data to help drive decisions in any event.