Fast food workers plan Thursday strike f

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: dlundblad

Maybe I misunderstood you. I had the impression your point was that if Australia has a $15 minimum wage, then the US should too. Did I read it wrong?


No, I think the whole "US business cannot operate with a higher minimum wage" is a phony argument.


I suppose it could operate on a higher minimum wage, but be prepared for increased prices.. Like Australia.

I don't understand how making more money per hr with increased costs of living is better than where we are at now.

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
+1 CL. I work in a grocery store and I see a lot of EBT users. It's pretty easy to pick them out actually. Occasionally I'll see a young single mom with 3 polite well behaved kids (my kind of woman!) but it is rare.. It's usually the extreme opposite.

Usually they have the latest and greatest smartphones too.. And since the government is paying for their food, they have more money for alcohol and tobacco. The $30 bottle of Vodka isn't too pricey now.


Yep.

We own a store, work there several days a week to keep payroll expense down (either before or after I go in to the office - some days both), and have observed exactly the same thing.

Except you left out the extra money it frees up for horrendous, evil, looking tattoos and piercings. I think these people don't even bother with work, and probably don't have to. I can't imagine anyone hiring them. I certainly wouldn't.

The government is relentlessly putting as many people on the dole as possible. When we had our most recent child, two years ago, I was shocked and appalled at all the calls we got from the assistance people, and the tenacity they displayed, in trying to extend us the government cheese for whatever kids are eligible for these days.

They have so mainstreamed it, there is no longer any shame associated with it, and hard work over long hours no longer seems to be seen as a virtue - it's just being evil rich one per centers.

The country is really being taken for a ride. I wonder how much longer it can go on.



Agreed 100% The problem with this minimum wage hike is that it is not based on anything. Ask someone what the minimum wage should be, take their answer and tack on another $10 and ask if that would be better. You can continue that conversation for quite a bit before the person will say...well we started with $x an hour but $y an hour seems too much. Ask them why? They cannot answer it...just that it seems like too much.

Minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage. It was a start, a stepping stone, to move onto other things. Upping the minimum wage to $15 just insures more folks out of work (automation) and thusly more folks on the government dole. Seems almost planned....

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: dlundblad

Maybe I misunderstood you. I had the impression your point was that if Australia has a $15 minimum wage, then the US should too. Did I read it wrong?


No, I think the whole "US business cannot operate with a higher minimum wage" is a phony argument.


I suppose it could operate on a higher minimum wage, but be prepared for increased prices.. Like Australia.

I don't understand how making more money per hr with increased costs of living is better than where we are at now.


I don't think that fast food places are going to close up shop. The market is there. People will pay for the food and convenience.

Inflation is not good for anyone. If inflation had kept up with the minimum wage then you would probably be around $20 and hour. Do you propose no one should raise prices on anything?

Again if they can stay in business in Australia then they can in the US too.

 

[spackard]

t is neither here nor there that the real value of the minimum wage peaked in 1968 and has declined since that time. If the minimum wage law is a structural mistake, then 1968 represents the low point in the cycle, not the high point. Indeed, it is worth noting that the most rapid decline in the real value of the minimum wage took place during the Reagan years, when labor markets continued to gain strength. The relevant baseline is not historic demands of the minimum wage law; it is what workers earn. We have very low labor market participation today. If an increased minimum wage will make it harder for low-skills persons, minorities, and teenagers to gain a toehold in the labor market, why support it?

Nor is the case for a higher minimum wage advanced by insisting, as the White House does, that “paying workers more can also improve motivation, morale, focus, and health, all of which can make workers more productive.” Indeed, these considerations cut exactly the opposite way. If increased wages alone increased productivity, there would be no need for federal intervention: Employers would have all the incentive they need to raise wages voluntarily. That is how markets work.

In fact, if the incentive is as the White House says, then federal intervention could upset the delicate internal balance of any firm, lowering morale by prompting employers to respond with cuts in hours and changes in shifts and working conditions. The best that can be hoped for is that a hike in the minimum wage will not be too harmful. It is highly unlikely that it can be a source for good.

http://www.hoover.org/research/minimum-wage-hype

 

[SHOZ]

Dreaming of free markets void of government intervention is pie in the sky dreaming.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Dreaming of free markets void of government intervention is pie in the sky dreaming.


My corollary to this is dreaming of government intervention without some sort of negative consequence is also pie in the sky dreaming.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Dreaming of free markets void of government intervention is pie in the sky dreaming.


My corollary to this is dreaming of government intervention without some sort of negative consequence is also pie in the sky dreaming.


There is always a positive and negative to any choice.

 

[javacontour]

Which is what I said a page back. Fiddle with the MW and some will win, others will lose.

Most of those lobbying for minimum wage are not the ones paying the salaries.

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Dreaming of free markets void of government intervention is pie in the sky dreaming.


My corollary to this is dreaming of government intervention without some sort of negative consequence is also pie in the sky dreaming.


There is always a positive and negative to any choice.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: 2002 Maxima SE

Agreed 100% The problem with this minimum wage hike is that it is not based on anything.


It's based on a cost of living and what it would take to raise oneself and/or a family without rent assistance, health insurance subsidies, food stamps, etc. I'd rather pay slightly more for the occasional treat of a cheeseburger than have my paycheck robbed to subsidize some thrifty sheister of a franchisee when he compensates his people.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I don't think that fast food places are going to close up shop. The market is there. People will pay for the food and convenience.

Inflation is not good for anyone. If inflation had kept up with the minimum wage then you would probably be around $20 and hour. Do you propose no one should raise prices on anything?

Again if they can stay in business in Australia then they can in the US too.


They are able to stay in business in Ausi because the cost of living is so much higher. Lets say "stuff" over there cost 50% more (I know this is a huge generalization) It would stand to reason the MW would be higher there than here. They make more money.. and pay more for their "stuff". It evens out at the end.

You are right though. Inflation is not good for anyone. The classic example of Germany after the first world war comes to mind. To be honest I am not sure what the best route is.. The answer to what MW should be ($20sih)in relation to what it was back in the 80's is simple . The USD is losing its value. I honestly have no idea what the best fix is. I don't think anyone does.. or else we would be doing it. I do think more people with higher education, especially in the math and science areas, is a good start though.

All I have to say is if MW is raised 100% to $15 (7.25 x2ish), I am willing to bet the cost of a gallon of milk will do the same thing. A few jobs might get replaced with automation, but for the most part, prices will have to be raised to pay for expenses.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: 2002 Maxima SE

Agreed 100% The problem with this minimum wage hike is that it is not based on anything.


It's based on a cost of living and what it would take to raise oneself and/or a family without rent assistance, health insurance subsidies, food stamps, etc. I'd rather pay slightly more for the occasional treat of a cheeseburger than have my paycheck robbed to subsidize some thrifty sheister of a franchisee when he compensates his people.


Your paycheck will always be robbed. People do not want to work especially since they make more on unemployment. If unemployment/ government cow benefits were cut back, then we would be onto something.

I am all for helping people out who help themselves.. For example a single (divorced) mom with 3 kids who works 40 hrs a week (no OT.. hurting for money) deserves help. The mother of 3 kids from different dads who stays at home on their smart phone all day doesn't deserve much of anything IMO.

There is far more of the second example than the first. I promise you that. We need to turn this around. As mentioned, the government is too quick to offer assistance.

 

[Clubber_Lang]

For many, Gov assistance is a way of life, for many generations. I have seen grandchildren living in the same Gov subsidized welfare slums their grandparents grew up in. They are perfectly content.

There is a reason for this, either
A: they are too stupid to support themselves, or
B: They have no motivation because they understand that it is easy to be lazy.

I choose option B. It is compounded by the fact that parents of the individuals in this cycle have raised them with the poisonous thought process of always looking for maximum handouts.

What did the US do before the not so Great Society welfare boom of the 1960s? Charity cases were handled by families and by Churches. Those people and organizations had a much closer look to decide if someone really needed a helping hand or just a good swift kick in the buttocks.

 

[Mr Nice]

I hate when people who don't want to work talk about 'income inequalities' but want to be supported 100% by our government.

 

[eljefino]

Why is a thread about minimum wage covering people who don't want to work?

A lot of the min wage positions also put up with mountains of crummy procedures, bum hours, and crabby customers. When pay gets better it also starts turning into office jobs where there's more time to steal away for facebook or whatever.

Work ethic, they seem to have it. Maybe not luck, networking, experience. Maybe not judging success via paycheck... social workers, home health aides, librarians...

There are a few in this thread that think that someone waking up in the middle of the night to go into Dunkin Donuts and work a not-quite-full-time shift is doing something wrong. I think they're doing something right, or possibly some shade of grey in between.

 

[antiqueshell]

I agree with eljefino's post!

That is the problem today.... only "selected" positions in the work force are deemed to be worthy of some pride on the part of the employee filling the job. That also affects the attitude on the part of manglement when it comes to compensation.

Frankly because it benefits the companies they actually
have an "expectation" (desire) that low tier jobs will only be comprised of employees who are poor performers which allows them to keep the pay as low as possible and never offer any raises of any consequence. Even though many times the only contact the customer has with that business is in fact with that very low tier employee, and a bad experience for the customer can often times mean they will never patronize that business again, this happens ALL the time and it costs businesses plenty of income!

 

[Merkava_4]

CLICK ON THIS LINK

 

[javacontour]

What makes divorced moms so special? Chances are, if she's like my ex-wife, and the majority of divorced moms, she left a faithful husband who didn't beat her, didn't cheat on her, and wasn't addicted to drugs or alcohol. Just because he didn't match up to some RomCom ideal, she decided she wanted a divorce, the kids, half or more of the stuff, etc.

Personally, if someone left the husband because she wasn't happy, she really doesn't DESERVE anything.

I'm so tired of this women are victims mentality. Some are. Most are not.

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: 2002 Maxima SE

Agreed 100% The problem with this minimum wage hike is that it is not based on anything.


It's based on a cost of living and what it would take to raise oneself and/or a family without rent assistance, health insurance subsidies, food stamps, etc. I'd rather pay slightly more for the occasional treat of a cheeseburger than have my paycheck robbed to subsidize some thrifty sheister of a franchisee when he compensates his people.


Your paycheck will always be robbed. People do not want to work especially since they make more on unemployment. If unemployment/ government cow benefits were cut back, then we would be onto something.

I am all for helping people out who help themselves.. For example a single (divorced) mom with 3 kids who works 40 hrs a week (no OT.. hurting for money) deserves help. The mother of 3 kids from different dads who stays at home on their smart phone all day doesn't deserve much of anything IMO.

There is far more of the second example than the first. I promise you that. We need to turn this around. As mentioned, the government is too quick to offer assistance.

 

[Clubber_Lang]

Careful Java, or the enlightened ones will acuse you of a "war on women"

 

[javacontour]

The only war going on is the war on rational thought.

 

[Clubber_Lang]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
The only war going on is the war on rational thought.


+1000. People need to turn off the boobtube and think for themselves.