FAQ on differences between Group III and Group IV

[teambeechstreet]

I swear there used to be a FAQ on the differences between Group III and Group IV oils. I've been searching for the last 15 mins... can anyone please link me to it? Really appreciate it...

Sorry about the noob post

 

[AndyH]

This may or may not be what you're thinking of, but it's a good read:
The Evolution of Base Oil Technology

Note: this is a 280k PDF document.

 

[teambeechstreet]

Wow, thanks for the PDF file, AndyH. That helped out a lot.

 

[Greaser]

So what this says is they've come to a refining process with group 3 base oils that meets ,or is better, than PAO base stock oil's in some cases.So if they mix up the bases,group 3 and PAO's,you get a BETTER product than the old stuff, thats cheaper for the oil companies to produce,but the price stays the same....got-it

 

[427Z06]

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So what this says is they've come to a refining process with group 3 base oils that meets ,or is better, than PAO base stock oil's in some cases. So if they mix up the bases,group 3 and PAO's,you get a BETTER product than the old stuff, thats cheaper for the oil companies to produce,but the price stays the same....got-it

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Be careful there. He doesn't state the other case. Group IIIs have a pretty loose definition and thus one can use predominantly, or all, of an inferior Group III basestock and end up with stuff that is far inferior to a predominantly PAO formulation, and still call it a full synthetic.

 

[teambeechstreet]

so can someone dumb it down for me and just give me a couple reasons why a group IV is usually considered better than a group III?

 

[427Z06]

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so can someone dumb it down for me and just give me a couple reasons why a group IV is usually considered better than a group III?

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Let me try this rough analogy to water and see if some don't squeal too loudly.

Group IV is like taking pure hydrogen and pure oxygen and combining them to create water.

Group III is like taking water out of the lake and processing it so that it is suitable to be delivered to your home as drinkable water.

 

[Laminar Lou]

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Let me try this rough analogy to water and see if some don't squeal too loudly.

Group IV is like taking pure hydrogen and pure oxygen and combining them to create water.

Group III is like taking water out of the lake and processing it so that it is suitable to be delivered to your home as drinkable water.

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I guess the big question then is how much of a snob is your engine about its "water". I know that some people here say that their engine only likes the bottled import stuff from the German Alps (okay I am not certain that it is really made in the Alps, but I needed an Evian analogy).

 

[Curious Kid]

That's a good one 427Z06. This purity enhances some attributes of the basestock (fewer deposits and volitility as temps raise, and better flow as temps drop - VI vs. III), while lessening others (additive soluability). There's more but that's all this hobby going individual recalls. :')

 

[Laminar Lou]

Then again, Evian is just Naive spelled backwards.

 

[427Z06]

"Aquafina? I think it means 'The end of water as we know it.'" - Lewis Black

 

[pzev]

Aquafina is just purified detroit tap water....so I guess that means it's group 3 (the end of synthetic as we know it

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[forcedtalon]

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Aquafina is just purified detroit tap water....so I guess that means it's group 3 (the end of synthetic as we know it

)

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Good one so true though.
For all you experts out there what is the future of group IV oils??

 

[ewetho]

You can make a #@$%! Group IV or III but what he did say is with modern additive you can make LOTS of Group III with properties matching very closely to the Group IV stuff everyone loved. Heck even beat it some regards.

So what we are to learn is Group III should be cheaper like Pennzoil so do not overpay for Mobil1.

Looks like Group IV except for boutique blends is DONE, FINISHED, OVER!

 

[LargeCarManX2]

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Aquafina is just purified detroit tap water....so I guess that means it's group 3 (the end of synthetic as we know it

)

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Good one so true though.
For all you experts out there what is the future of group IV oils??

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Either the price drops, or it will be for the Rich and Famous only

 

[NJC]

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The Evolution of Base Oil Technology

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Excellent article. I vote to place as a Sticky.

 

[NJC]

And this:

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"... a 1999 ruling by the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureaus broadened the definition of synthetic lubricants to include Group III base stocks. With Group III granted the right to wear the Œsynthetic label - and a cost differential of $1.50 to $2.00 a gallon in favor of Group III most large lubricant producers moved quickly to replace PAO with Group III in their synthetic PCMO formulations."

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Is this what Exxon-Mobil battled against?

 

[427Z06]

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Article on PAOs

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I hope those who read the Base Oil Tech paper, also read this.

 

[buster]

Thanks for that article. 427. In the end, it looks like GTL could be the ultimate winner. That is years away though. It seems that their is very little difference between high quality Group III+ and PAO's. I'm not happy with Mobil's decision, but I still think it's a good product.

 

[427Z06]

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Thanks for that article. 427. In the end, it looks like GTL could be the ultimate winner. That is years away though. It seems that their is very little difference between high quality Group III+ and PAO's. I'm not happy with Mobil's decision, but I still think it's a good product.

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"Seems" and "years away" being the operative words.