Falling asleep at work
- Thread starter Tempest
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Agree 100% with Tempest - in this kind of job, where hundreads of lives are on the line, you have to make sure you are in tip-top shape to do the job, NO excuses!
Maybe he should be a WM greeter - can't fall asleep if you're on your feet all day. Oh, but wait, he probably has a union to protect him, so they'll make all sorts of excuses, give him a few months off paid, and then he'll go right back to work.
He should be JAILED for gross negligence!
Maybe he should be a WM greeter - can't fall asleep if you're on your feet all day. Oh, but wait, he probably has a union to protect him, so they'll make all sorts of excuses, give him a few months off paid, and then he'll go right back to work.
He should be JAILED for gross negligence!
People grossly overestimate the role of air traffic controllers. What happened while this guy was asleep? The pilots flew the planes safely to destination...landed, and then taxied to their gate.
Don't get me wrong, tower controllers are very important. But pilots don't need them to fly...
Don't get me wrong, tower controllers are very important. But pilots don't need them to fly...
Originally Posted By: Al
The main purpose of these workers is to go out and spend the money they get paid (borrowed) to stimulate the economy.
That's a side effect, the main purpose is to get the planes to take off and land safely.
Or you can automate them and tolerate a few crashes a year, that'll probably be cheaper. Hey, you can't save a few millions without crashing a few planes. Let me know the next time you fly, I'll propose the big G to cut a few jobs to save you a few bucks on the tickets.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Don't get me wrong, tower controllers are very important. But pilots don't need them to fly...
They need them to take off and land.
The main purpose of these workers is to go out and spend the money they get paid (borrowed) to stimulate the economy.
That's a side effect, the main purpose is to get the planes to take off and land safely.
Or you can automate them and tolerate a few crashes a year, that'll probably be cheaper. Hey, you can't save a few millions without crashing a few planes. Let me know the next time you fly, I'll propose the big G to cut a few jobs to save you a few bucks on the tickets.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Don't get me wrong, tower controllers are very important. But pilots don't need them to fly...
They need them to take off and land.
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Sleep Apnea is a disqualifying medical condition for Air Traffic Controllers. Controllers may return to work only after they have demonstrated an effective treatment method, i.e., CPAP, or other approved methods.
In order to regain medical certification, an applicant must apply for a waiver and submit medical tests along with results from a MWT (maximum wakefullness test) to the FAA. The MWT test consists of placing wired elctrodes on the scalp which will measure eye movement, brain activity, respiration, pulse ox, and a few other nuero activites.
The testing requires that an individual lie on a bed in a semi-recumbant position for a 40 minute time period, and stay awake, i.e., no micro-sleeps, nodding off, etc. The 40 minute test is conducted 4 times during the day at 8 am, 10am, 12 noon, and 2 pm. If there are no "sleep events", the applicant passes the MWT.
MWT test result data is recorded and submitted to the FAA Aeromedical office in Oklahoma City, which reviews the treatment plan, initial sleep study, follow-up sleep study, and MWT results. This test must be repeated every year in order to maintain medical qualification.
Another important item to understand is that Air Traffic Controllers generally do not work the same shift day after day. Normal work schedules might consist of working days on day 1, afternoons on days 2 and 3, evenings to early am on day 4, and overnight (midnight to 8 am) on day 5. Working a rotating schedule like that can be difficult under the best of circumstances. Circadian rhythms are still not clearly understood, but are receiving attention under new duty limits and required rest periods for Air Traffic Controllers and Pilots alike.
I worked as an Air Traffic Controller, and can tell you that if you are fatigued and there is little activity (like DCA at midnight)the chances of nodding off are great. Why do we have 2 pilots in the cockpit? To back each other up. Safety is no accident.
At this time it is foolish to rush to judgement about what happened because we simply do not have the facts to support any conclusion. The old axiam in aviation is if you rush to judgement on a particluar incident, you are probably wrong.
757 Guy
Former Air Traffic Controller
Current Airline Pilot 757/767.
...and no, controllers are not needed for takeoff or landing, but an aircraft operating under part 121 needs to have a clearance from somebody. Might not be from the local tower, might be from a departure controller, or from an Air Route Traffic Control Center. Towers do close. I have landed in Ft. Meyers, FL (commercial flight) many times after the tower was closed. We simply advise any traffic on the airport frequency that we are landing. After landing we call the Air Route Traffic Control Center, tell them we are on the ground, and to cancel our IFR Flight Plan. Simple as that.
In order to regain medical certification, an applicant must apply for a waiver and submit medical tests along with results from a MWT (maximum wakefullness test) to the FAA. The MWT test consists of placing wired elctrodes on the scalp which will measure eye movement, brain activity, respiration, pulse ox, and a few other nuero activites.
The testing requires that an individual lie on a bed in a semi-recumbant position for a 40 minute time period, and stay awake, i.e., no micro-sleeps, nodding off, etc. The 40 minute test is conducted 4 times during the day at 8 am, 10am, 12 noon, and 2 pm. If there are no "sleep events", the applicant passes the MWT.
MWT test result data is recorded and submitted to the FAA Aeromedical office in Oklahoma City, which reviews the treatment plan, initial sleep study, follow-up sleep study, and MWT results. This test must be repeated every year in order to maintain medical qualification.
Another important item to understand is that Air Traffic Controllers generally do not work the same shift day after day. Normal work schedules might consist of working days on day 1, afternoons on days 2 and 3, evenings to early am on day 4, and overnight (midnight to 8 am) on day 5. Working a rotating schedule like that can be difficult under the best of circumstances. Circadian rhythms are still not clearly understood, but are receiving attention under new duty limits and required rest periods for Air Traffic Controllers and Pilots alike.
I worked as an Air Traffic Controller, and can tell you that if you are fatigued and there is little activity (like DCA at midnight)the chances of nodding off are great. Why do we have 2 pilots in the cockpit? To back each other up. Safety is no accident.
At this time it is foolish to rush to judgement about what happened because we simply do not have the facts to support any conclusion. The old axiam in aviation is if you rush to judgement on a particluar incident, you are probably wrong.
757 Guy
Former Air Traffic Controller
Current Airline Pilot 757/767.
...and no, controllers are not needed for takeoff or landing, but an aircraft operating under part 121 needs to have a clearance from somebody. Might not be from the local tower, might be from a departure controller, or from an Air Route Traffic Control Center. Towers do close. I have landed in Ft. Meyers, FL (commercial flight) many times after the tower was closed. We simply advise any traffic on the airport frequency that we are landing. After landing we call the Air Route Traffic Control Center, tell them we are on the ground, and to cancel our IFR Flight Plan. Simple as that.
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Originally Posted By: 757guy
757 Guy
Former Air Traffic Controller
Current Airline Pilot 757/767.
Even though I might be negative on "Gov Workers"...nice to see informed information.
Thanks.
757 Guy
Former Air Traffic Controller
Current Airline Pilot 757/767.
Even though I might be negative on "Gov Workers"...nice to see informed information.
Thanks.
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Thanks 757guy for your info.
Originally Posted By: 757guy
Another important item to understand is that Air Traffic Controllers generally do not work the same shift day after day. Normal work schedules might consist of working days on day 1, afternoons on days 2 and 3, evenings to early am on day 4, and overnight (midnight to 8 am) on day 5. Working a rotating schedule like that can be difficult under the best of circumstances.
Looks like a set up for failure to me.
Another important item to understand is that Air Traffic Controllers generally do not work the same shift day after day. Normal work schedules might consist of working days on day 1, afternoons on days 2 and 3, evenings to early am on day 4, and overnight (midnight to 8 am) on day 5. Working a rotating schedule like that can be difficult under the best of circumstances.
Looks like a set up for failure to me.
Originally Posted By: 757guy
Sleep Apnea is a disqualifying medical condition for Air Traffic Controllers. Controllers may return to work only after they have demonstrated an effective treatment method, i.e., CPAP, or other approved methods.
In order to regain medical certification, an applicant must apply for a waiver and submit medical tests along with results from a MWT (maximum wakefullness test) to the FAA. The MWT test consists of placing wired elctrodes on the scalp which will measure eye movement, brain activity, respiration, pulse ox, and a few other nuero activites.
The testing requires that an individual lie on a bed in a semi-recumbant position for a 40 minute time period, and stay awake, i.e., no micro-sleeps, nodding off, etc. The 40 minute test is conducted 4 times during the day at 8 am, 10am, 12 noon, and 2 pm. If there are no "sleep events", the applicant passes the MWT.
MWT test result data is recorded and submitted to the FAA Aeromedical office in Oklahoma City, which reviews the treatment plan, initial sleep study, follow-up sleep study, and MWT results. This test must be repeated every year in order to maintain medical qualification.
Another important item to understand is that Air Traffic Controllers generally do not work the same shift day after day. Normal work schedules might consist of working days on day 1, afternoons on days 2 and 3, evenings to early am on day 4, and overnight (midnight to 8 am) on day 5. Working a rotating schedule like that can be difficult under the best of circumstances. Circadian rhythms are still not clearly understood, but are receiving attention under new duty limits and required rest periods for Air Traffic Controllers and Pilots alike.
I worked as an Air Traffic Controller, and can tell you that if you are fatigued and there is little activity (like DCA at midnight)the chances of nodding off are great. Why do we have 2 pilots in the cockpit? To back each other up. Safety is no accident.
At this time it is foolish to rush to judgement about what happened because we simply do not have the facts to support any conclusion. The old axiam in aviation is if you rush to judgement on a particluar incident, you are probably wrong.
757 Guy
Former Air Traffic Controller
Current Airline Pilot 757/767.
...and no, controllers are not needed for takeoff or landing, but an aircraft operating under part 121 needs to have a clearance from somebody. Might not be from the local tower, might be from a departure controller, or from an Air Route Traffic Control Center. Towers do close. I have landed in Ft. Meyers, FL (commercial flight) many times after the tower was closed. We simply advise any traffic on the airport frequency that we are landing. After landing we call the Air Route Traffic Control Center, tell them we are on the ground, and to cancel our IFR Flight Plan. Simple as that.
Good info, thanks.
Sleep Apnea is a disqualifying medical condition for Air Traffic Controllers. Controllers may return to work only after they have demonstrated an effective treatment method, i.e., CPAP, or other approved methods.
In order to regain medical certification, an applicant must apply for a waiver and submit medical tests along with results from a MWT (maximum wakefullness test) to the FAA. The MWT test consists of placing wired elctrodes on the scalp which will measure eye movement, brain activity, respiration, pulse ox, and a few other nuero activites.
The testing requires that an individual lie on a bed in a semi-recumbant position for a 40 minute time period, and stay awake, i.e., no micro-sleeps, nodding off, etc. The 40 minute test is conducted 4 times during the day at 8 am, 10am, 12 noon, and 2 pm. If there are no "sleep events", the applicant passes the MWT.
MWT test result data is recorded and submitted to the FAA Aeromedical office in Oklahoma City, which reviews the treatment plan, initial sleep study, follow-up sleep study, and MWT results. This test must be repeated every year in order to maintain medical qualification.
Another important item to understand is that Air Traffic Controllers generally do not work the same shift day after day. Normal work schedules might consist of working days on day 1, afternoons on days 2 and 3, evenings to early am on day 4, and overnight (midnight to 8 am) on day 5. Working a rotating schedule like that can be difficult under the best of circumstances. Circadian rhythms are still not clearly understood, but are receiving attention under new duty limits and required rest periods for Air Traffic Controllers and Pilots alike.
I worked as an Air Traffic Controller, and can tell you that if you are fatigued and there is little activity (like DCA at midnight)the chances of nodding off are great. Why do we have 2 pilots in the cockpit? To back each other up. Safety is no accident.
At this time it is foolish to rush to judgement about what happened because we simply do not have the facts to support any conclusion. The old axiam in aviation is if you rush to judgement on a particluar incident, you are probably wrong.
757 Guy
Former Air Traffic Controller
Current Airline Pilot 757/767.
...and no, controllers are not needed for takeoff or landing, but an aircraft operating under part 121 needs to have a clearance from somebody. Might not be from the local tower, might be from a departure controller, or from an Air Route Traffic Control Center. Towers do close. I have landed in Ft. Meyers, FL (commercial flight) many times after the tower was closed. We simply advise any traffic on the airport frequency that we are landing. After landing we call the Air Route Traffic Control Center, tell them we are on the ground, and to cancel our IFR Flight Plan. Simple as that.
Good info, thanks.
Very interesting info there, 757Guy.
Originally Posted By: Al
No problem..The Government will just hire double the number of controllers on duty at one time to minimize the problem.
Just as I predicted:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42237593/ns/travel-news/
"On Wednesday, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood LaHood directed FAA to launch a nationwide study of airport tower staffing. He also directed that at least two controllers be on duty at night at Reagan, which is located just across the Potomac River from Washington, D.C., in northern Virginia."
China will approve the loan to do it.
No problem..The Government will just hire double the number of controllers on duty at one time to minimize the problem.
Just as I predicted:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42237593/ns/travel-news/
"On Wednesday, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood LaHood directed FAA to launch a nationwide study of airport tower staffing. He also directed that at least two controllers be on duty at night at Reagan, which is located just across the Potomac River from Washington, D.C., in northern Virginia."
China will approve the loan to do it.
Al, what happened at TMI... did someone doze off then too ??
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Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
Originally Posted By: defektes
must be a union job.
Not funny.
umm, it was kinda funny...
K, maybe a little bit.
Well, the joke is sorta on whomever thought it funny. This stuff didn't happen when the Air Traffic Controllers Union existed. The Reagan Administration broke them and it's been downhill ever since.
No one supported them since no one could relate to a $60k/year person wanting more benefits and/or wages. The public saw UAW ..the traffic controllers saw "professional association".
Someone in that position just might be worth paying to have a good wage with really short or cycled work day/week/year. I suspect that no one will understand it now ..just like no one understood it then.
..but .."Stay the course" ..by all means
Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
Originally Posted By: defektes
must be a union job.
Not funny.
umm, it was kinda funny...
K, maybe a little bit.
Well, the joke is sorta on whomever thought it funny. This stuff didn't happen when the Air Traffic Controllers Union existed. The Reagan Administration broke them and it's been downhill ever since.
No one supported them since no one could relate to a $60k/year person wanting more benefits and/or wages. The public saw UAW ..the traffic controllers saw "professional association".
Someone in that position just might be worth paying to have a good wage with really short or cycled work day/week/year. I suspect that no one will understand it now ..just like no one understood it then.
..but .."Stay the course" ..by all means
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Well, the joke is sorta on whomever thought it funny. This stuff didn't happen when the Air Traffic Controllers Union existed. The Reagan Administration broke them and it's been downhill ever since.
Glad you could blame someone's action 30 years ago for a traffic controller falling asleep on the job.
Well, the joke is sorta on whomever thought it funny. This stuff didn't happen when the Air Traffic Controllers Union existed. The Reagan Administration broke them and it's been downhill ever since.
Glad you could blame someone's action 30 years ago for a traffic controller falling asleep on the job.
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"Reagan did it"!!!
Hilarious.
Hilarious.
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Originally Posted By: andyd
Ronny Raygun broke the ATC union when they struck. If they are so essential, why arent there 2 of them on duty at all times?
Because all federal spending is perceived by many to be bad.
Canada (yes Canada), privatized their controllers 14 years ago and all seems to be well.
http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/privatize-faa
As of (at least) 2002, the FAA was still using vacuum tubes in some of their systems.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_n1-2_v28/ai_17761489/pg_7/
Originally Posted By: andyd
Ronny Raygun broke the ATC union when they struck. If they are so essential, why arent there 2 of them on duty at all times?
Because all federal spending is perceived by many to be bad.
Canada (yes Canada), privatized their controllers 14 years ago and all seems to be well.
http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/privatize-faa
As of (at least) 2002, the FAA was still using vacuum tubes in some of their systems.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_n1-2_v28/ai_17761489/pg_7/
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