Extra 0w-20...good time to try the CATERHAM blend?

[cutlassvillager]

I service a lot of my family's vehicles. I was servicing a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid, but that has moved with its owner to Calgary, Alberta which leaves me with 2.5 quarts of Mobil 1 0w-20 (that's after a full quart bottle was left in the trunk for top off

). Most of the other cars I service M52 (BMW), M54 (BMW) and a turbocharged 2.0L Subaru motor like at least "thicker" 30wts.

My parent's 2000 Mercury Villager (spec's 5w30) is due for an oil service. It takes 4.2L to a change, so can I mix approximately 2 quarts Mobil 1 0w-20 to 2 quarts Mobil 1 0w-40? I know the Caterham blend is TGMO 0w-20 but I figure it's close enough.

 

[panthermike]

You can definitely do that, I've done it many times.

 

[HTSS_TR]

I have 3 quarts Mobil 1 0W20 and 2 quarts Mobil 1 0W40 in my S2000 now. The mixed HTHS is 3.1 which is the same as Mobil 1 5W30 but with VI of 177 which higher than 172 of 5W30. I think the safest mix is within same brand and type.

 

[CATERHAM]

No problem.
The mix will give a pretty decent 0w30 with a 3.2cP HTHSV and 180 VI. If you need to top up with more oil now or at a later date any 0W/5w30 will do.

 

[randomhero439]

So... from my understanding: Mixing Mobil 1 0w-20 and Mobil 1 0w-40 will yield an oil that is superior to Mobil 1 0w-30?

Equal Parts mix: BLEND vs Mobil 1 0w-30
Phos: 825 vs 650ppm
Zinc: 925 vs 750ppm
100*C: 10.8 vs 10.9cST
Viscosity Index: 181 vs 166
HTHSV: 3.2 vs 3.1cP

Given this data, clearly the mix is better all around. So with this knowledge, the normal Mobil 1 0w30 is kinda pointless for us BITOGers!

 

[Shannow]

The 50:50 mix will be much harder to pump than the 0W-30, having a 50% higher MRV at -40C than the proper 0W-30, and a massive more than double the MRV over the 0W-20 alone...not to mention the massive and unnecessary 3.3% excess HTHS viscosity which will cost a huge amount of fuel economy...

 

[randomhero439]

How would the 0w30 blend compare to the standard Mobil 1 0w-30? In a car that is raced in the summer, and stored in the winter? More ZDDP, more VI, more synthetic, more TBN (10.3 vs 9.1) Higher flash point (227 vs 226)

Actually the HTHSV of the Mobil 1 0w30 is 3.0cP, so it would be a 6.7% increase.

 

[toneydoc]

I don't know if I would try that blend in a high performance machine like the Mercury Villager. All the added plusses of the mix may result in extreme performance caused by operator error and thus yield a ticket from the boys in blue. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Shannow]

People keep forgetting that the mix is completely inferior in cold start flow to the proper 0w30 grade, by a massive 50%

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: randomhero439
So... from my understanding: Mixing Mobil 1 0w-20 and Mobil 1 0w-40 will yield an oil that is superior to Mobil 1 0w-30?

Equal Parts mix: BLEND vs Mobil 1 0w-30
Phos: 825 vs 650ppm
Zinc: 925 vs 750ppm
100*C: 10.8 vs 10.9cST
Viscosity Index: 181 vs 166
HTHSV: 3.2 vs 3.1cP

Given this data, clearly the mix is better all around. So with this knowledge, the normal Mobil 1 0w30 is kinda pointless for us BITOGers!


With all of XOM's resources I scratch my head and say why didn't they think of it if it is truly better? There has to be more to it, than numbers generated from a viscosity calculator and spec sheets. Someone please explain because in all honesty I'm trying to learn and wrap my head around all of this, and I'm confused.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
People keep forgetting that the mix is completely inferior in cold start flow to the proper 0w30 grade, by a massive 50%

In fairness, Shannow, it does have some things going for it, like VI. Where I am, I'd be a little more concerned about the 0w- side of things. Pumpability can be an issue, and my view is that if I want a 0w-30, I'll buy one and not brew it.

Mobil Delvac Elite 222 is a real 0w30 and has a VI of 176. I'm not going to mention that it's an HDEO and will certainly have the HTHS to match!

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Mobil Delvac Elite 222 is a real 0w30 and has a VI of 176. I'm not going to mention that it's an HDEO and will certainly have the HTHS to match!


You just did...

Perhaps you should also (not) mention that this seems to be a Canada-only product, and a very interesting one at that! Though the OP is from Michigan, I wonder if the oil is worth a trip over the border?

 

[Finz]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: randomhero439
So... from my understanding: Mixing Mobil 1 0w-20 and Mobil 1 0w-40 will yield an oil that is superior to Mobil 1 0w-30?

Equal Parts mix: BLEND vs Mobil 1 0w-30
Phos: 825 vs 650ppm
Zinc: 925 vs 750ppm
100*C: 10.8 vs 10.9cST
Viscosity Index: 181 vs 166
HTHSV: 3.2 vs 3.1cP

Given this data, clearly the mix is better all around. So with this knowledge, the normal Mobil 1 0w30 is kinda pointless for us BITOGers!


With all of XOM's resources I scratch my head and say why didn't they think of it if it is truly better? There has to be more to it, than numbers generated from a viscosity calculator and spec sheets. Someone please explain because in all honesty I'm trying to learn and wrap my head around all of this, and I'm confused.


+1

I've seen the viscosity calculator and assume it's accurate but I want to know how you all so readily calculate the HTHS values... Is there a formula or another calculator that I've overlooked? Can it be as simple as a pure ratio?

I too am trying to learn

 

[bigt61]

Originally Posted By: toneydoc
I don't know if I would try that blend in a high performance machine like the Mercury Villager. All the added plusses of the mix may result in extreme performance caused by operator error and thus yield a ticket from the boys in blue. Be careful what you wish for.


Yeah, Newton runs the extremely exotic SuperTech conventional for 15,000 miles in his Villager. Those are very picky machines.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
People keep forgetting that the mix is completely inferior in cold start flow to the proper 0w30 grade, by a massive 50%

You don't know that.
What we do know is that the blend will be a 0w30 and lighter than all 5w30's at -40 degrees.
In the OP's climate he won't be seeing temp's anywhere near as cold as -40 degrees so MRV is a mute point.

But since you brought it up I do agree that the mix will likely have a resultant MRV higher than Mobil 1 0w30 primarily because the MRV spec' of Mobil 1 SN 0W-40 is fairly high at 34,000cP IIRC and a 50/50 blend is on the heavy side.
A 70/30 blend in favour of Mobil 1 0W-20 would produce a lighter 0w30 with a comparble HTHSV to Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 but the MRV will likely be still higher.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Perhaps you should also (not) mention that this seems to be a Canada-only product, and a very interesting one at that! Though the OP is from Michigan, I wonder if the oil is worth a trip over the border?

Only a potential purchaser could decide that. The price is very good by Canadian standards. And it's available in a 5 gallon pail. But, by American standards, it might be a bit pricey, and some people might not like the package size. As for me, I'd be happy if everything were in 5 gallon pails.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Shannow
People keep forgetting that the mix is completely inferior in cold start flow to the proper 0w30 grade, by a massive 50%

You don't know that.


I DO know it.

I took 9,200 at -40 for the 0W-20, and 31,000 at -40 for the 0W-40, and averaged them, giving 20,100...

Which is a full 50% more than the 13,250 for the "proper" 0W-30.

That's how I know, which is exactly the same technique that you taught us to know the KV100, KV40, and HTHS...

and if 25% is "huge", 50% can be "massive"

 

[CATERHAM]

I stand corrected. If anyone should know what "massively heavy" is all about it's yourself, from the land where "the most popular grade is a 15w40"!

Joking aside, for KV40, KV100 and HTHSV an average is a rough approximation but it's best to use a viscosity calculator.
For MRV and CCS there isn't a calculator. All we know for sure is that the result of a blend would between the values of the two oils.

If one wants to blend an 0w30 that will out perform Mobil 1 0w30 at -40 degrees, using Mobil 1 SN 0W-40 won't do it. The PAO based SM 0W-40 with a MRV of around 21,000cP would be a better choice but it would be the PAO based Mobil Delvac Elite 0w30 that Garak has already mentioned that would probably be the best choice with it's 3.5cP HTHSV and 14,900cP MRV. A 60/40 blend in favour of Mobil 1 0W-20 would produce a 0w30 with a "average" MRV of 11,500cP, which on paper is better than the 13,250 of Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W-30.
But the only way to know for sure would be to have the blend tested.

BTW since Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 isn't sold in Canada, Imperial Oil, the Exxon/Mobil affiliate in Canada have given their blessing to this "proper 0W-30" blend. Now I wonder if we can talk them into actually testing it?
Maybe Solarent with his industry connections out in oily Alberta might be able to arrange it?
Of course it is only of academic interest to most of us in Eastern Canada closer to the 43rd parallel. Here a blend of TGMO and Mobil 1 0W-40 (or Delvac 0W-40) still reigns supreme in a light 200+ VI 0w30 at more typical start-up temp's.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
If one wants to blend an 0w30 that will out perform Mobil 1 0w30 at -40 degrees, using Mobil 1 SN 0W-40 won't do it. The PAO based SM 0W-40 with a MRV of around 21,000cP would be a better choice but it would be the PAO based Mobil Delvac Elite 0w30 that Garak has already mentioned that would probably be the best choice with it's 3.5cP HTHSV and 14,900cP MRV. A 60/40 blend in favour of Mobil 1 0W-20 would produce a 0w30 with a "average" MRV of 11,500cP, which on paper is better than the 13,250 of Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W-30.


Yes, but then one gives up all of that VI of the Mobil 1 0W-40/AFE 0W-20 blend.

 

[HTSS_TR]

The MRV doesn't mean anything for So Cal drivers, we almost never get below 32F(0C) in winter, maybe once or twice every 4-5 years. At or below 20F(-6C) once every 100 years(may be 200 years).

Normal winter low where I live is around 45-50F at around 3-4 AM, by 8 AM it gets up to 55-60F and get to low to mid 70's by noon.

If I change oil twice a year I would use little more 0W20 in winter and a little more 0W40 in summer.