Explorers vs Cherokee/Grand Cherokee vs Blazer/Jimmy/Trailblazer/Envoy

[SilverSnake]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
It's hard to get anything decent for that price, especially a SUV. It's most certainly going to be early 2000s and as madRiver said, you're buying on condition at this price point.


This pretty much sums it up.

 

[dogememe]

Originally Posted by BrianF
I can only speak about the Trailblazer. There is a lot I like about it but it suffers from GM quality of that era. It has squeaks, some rattles, rust under the door/liftgate seams and parts seem (my opinion) to wear out around the 160,000km mark. Issues I ran into:
-outer tie rod ends failed around the 130,000km
-water pump/ idler and tensioner pullies around 135
-SAIS air pump around 140
-front driver side CV shaft seal.
-steering wheel position sensor started acting up around the 180 mark, same time the rear driveshaft U joints were failing.
-I had to patch the power steering pressure line as the flex sections were leaking (30$ fix) around 210.
-Thermostat around 220 as it was starting to stick open but not enough to throw a temp code.

Shocks and struts were fried at 160km and the rear brakes were done at 203km. I used to change the oil at 10,000km and now do it around 25,000km with a Fram Ultra. It appears that it now burns around 1/2 liter or so in that interval. I did the diffs/transfer case at 130km and the TC again at 220. Trans had a new filter and fluid exchange around 160. The drivetrain has been really solid for me with minimal work. I rebuilt the center axle disconnect around 160 as well, not that it was worn out but because I had it ripped down that far doing the struts. Maybe cost 60 bucks in bearings and a seal.

I really like the platform for its low height, body on frame/solid axle with an auto locking rear diff. It turns like a Geo Metro and does well on grid roads and in the city. Fluid exchanges on the transmission were absolutely simple. Tstat, water pump and struts were a bit trickier but easily doable with simple hand tools and some patience. Plugs and belt are easy. GMTNation has a great forum on this platform and I learned a lot how to keep it running without a mechanic.

I am still pondering getting another, possibly a 2008/9 model with lower miles as a replacement. I want a 4Runner but I cant justify the price as I can run the Trailblazer for less and still have left over for another. I would stick with a 2006 and up. Aluminum valve cover is less prone to leaking. More power and a few changes overall. 2008/9 should have the upgraded exhaust manifold (4.2 liter) as apparently there were issues with some cracking. I never had this issue though. Those last years went back to a completely mechanical fan clutch. The prior electro-viscous models are known to fail and stay locked. Mine has had no issues. The mechanical clutch is a drop in replacement and cheap but will throw a code on the earlier models. But companies like limeswap and PCMforless have tunes available for the platform to fix it all.


Yeah, on my Envoy it did have the exhaust manifold crack so we replaced that, also did the cat once, valve cover gaskets, it ate ignition coils. Can't think of much else.

Turning radius and handling were excellent. I drove it like a sports car. Til the end there where the shocks we're junk.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted by BrianF
I can only speak about the Trailblazer. There is a lot I like about it but it suffers from GM quality of that era. It has squeaks, some rattles, rust under the door/liftgate seams and parts seem (my opinion) to wear out around the 160,000km mark. Issues I ran into:
-outer tie rod ends failed around the 130,000km
-water pump/ idler and tensioner pullies around 135
-SAIS air pump around 140
-front driver side CV shaft seal.
-steering wheel position sensor started acting up around the 180 mark, same time the rear driveshaft U joints were failing.
-I had to patch the power steering pressure line as the flex sections were leaking (30$ fix) around 210.
-Thermostat around 220 as it was starting to stick open but not enough to throw a temp code.

Shocks and struts were fried at 160km and the rear brakes were done at 203km. I used to change the oil at 10,000km and now do it around 25,000km with a Fram Ultra. It appears that it now burns around 1/2 liter or so in that interval. I did the diffs/transfer case at 130km and the TC again at 220. Trans had a new filter and fluid exchange around 160. The drivetrain has been really solid for me with minimal work. I rebuilt the center axle disconnect around 160 as well, not that it was worn out but because I had it ripped down that far doing the struts. Maybe cost 60 bucks in bearings and a seal.

I really like the platform for its low height, body on frame/solid axle with an auto locking rear diff. It turns like a Geo Metro and does well on grid roads and in the city. Fluid exchanges on the transmission were absolutely simple. Tstat, water pump and struts were a bit trickier but easily doable with simple hand tools and some patience. Plugs and belt are easy. GMTNation has a great forum on this platform and I learned a lot how to keep it running without a mechanic.

I am still pondering getting another, possibly a 2008/9 model with lower miles as a replacement. I want a 4Runner but I cant justify the price as I can run the Trailblazer for less and still have left over for another. I would stick with a 2006 and up. Aluminum valve cover is less prone to leaking. More power and a few changes overall. 2008/9 should have the upgraded exhaust manifold (4.2 liter) as apparently there were issues with some cracking. I never had this issue though. Those last years went back to a completely mechanical fan clutch. The prior electro-viscous models are known to fail and stay locked. Mine has had no issues. The mechanical clutch is a drop in replacement and cheap but will throw a code on the earlier models. But companies like limeswap and PCMforless have tunes available for the platform to fix it all.


Wow! Frankly, I wasn't happy with the way mine handled when I got it, so the first thing I did was redo the suspension with custom springs, Bilstein shocks and Hotchkiss sway bars. Whilst I was in there, just to play it safe, I also replaced control arm bushings and ball joints along with the inner/outer tie rod ends because I didn't want to have to repeat this job when they failed. The water pump, fan clutch and thermostat I did all together because it was due for a coolant flush, and it was more a case of better now than later at the time. Brakes were another thing I wasn't particularly happy with, so I got a set of EBC's dimpled/slotted rotors along with their Ultimax2 pads and custom, plastic coated stainless steel hoses. Mine is RWD, which was one of my criteria at the time of purchase. Looks like I really saved myself some headaches!

My biggest ever issue was transmission fluid temperature, which I addressed with an air-to-oil cooler and a Derale deep dish pan with cooling fins that holds an additional 2.5 quarts.

Currently, I've got 200,500 km on mine. I change the oil based on the OLM - drain and refill at the 50% mark and a drain/refill and air and oil filter replacement at the ~1% mark. Does not consume oil between intervals - ~8,000 km to the 50% mark - but the export manual calls for ACEA A3 which might have something to do with it. I do not know if the OLM algorithm is any different.

Out of interest, what were the symptoms when the SAIS pump and steering wheel position sensor failed?

 

[BrianF]

The sound of the pump changed. Seems to me it was a higher pitched whine and then a failure altogether. I had drained water from the line on numerous occasions. But over here it was prone to freezing solid. It also began throwing codes for improper flow. When I gutted it, the pump had approx. 300ml of water in it that could not be drained unless the pump was tipped. It saturated the motor and caused a parasitic draw. I think the solenoid was throwing codes as well. The solenoid was not able to shut completely and the exhaust reversion caused it to suck air which I believe was causing a lean condition. I made a block off plate with sheet aluminum, which is currently still working.

The wheel position sensor was sporadic at best and still is. Normally the advance trak light kicks on (dealer scanned it) in the cold. And by cold we are talking below 0C, usually it was colder. I still had traction control but no advance trak. It has not popped on in several months and usually cleared by turning the thing off and restarting. In the winter it would be a few times per month.

 

[dogememe]

Well, I appreciate everyones suggestions but since I am no longer renting the Escape on Turo I have it back in my possession and I don't need to purchase another SUV.

 

[01rangerxl]

I can't say my Ranger/Explorer experience has been the same as yours. There's 220K on the one I drive most, and everything works great. Original engine, trans, A/C and most other things. My other one is coming up on 25 years and 200K also with original engine and most likely trans.

A family member has a 1993 Explorer that's around 350K now and gets used like the village bicycle. 1 trans at 225K, original engine. Salvage title since 01 or so.

A friend of mine has a 1996 130K mile garaged example, all original. Looks and drives like it's a few years old with under 100K.

They work for me.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted by BrianF
The sound of the pump changed. Seems to me it was a higher pitched whine and then a failure altogether. I had drained water from the line on numerous occasions. But over here it was prone to freezing solid. It also began throwing codes for improper flow. When I gutted it, the pump had approx. 300ml of water in it that could not be drained unless the pump was tipped. It saturated the motor and caused a parasitic draw. I think the solenoid was throwing codes as well. The solenoid was not able to shut completely and the exhaust reversion caused it to suck air which I believe was causing a lean condition. I made a block off plate with sheet aluminum, which is currently still working.

The wheel position sensor was sporadic at best and still is. Normally the advance trak light kicks on (dealer scanned it) in the cold. And by cold we are talking below 0C, usually it was colder. I still had traction control but no advance trak. It has not popped on in several months and usually cleared by turning the thing off and restarting. In the winter it would be a few times per month.


Thank you!