Experience with Redline Oil???
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What's interesting about that particular advice is that he's using Redline in the differential and transmission but not the engine.
In the engine, he's using Mobil 1 5W30 which has it's own issues. Here's what the owner's manual for the 2001 E46 states regarding oil:
Quote:
Specified engine oilsThe quality of the engine oil is extremely important for the function and life of an engine. Based on extensive testing, BMW has approved only certain types of engine oils.
Use only approved "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil."
If you are unable to obtain "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil," you may use small volumes of other approved synthetic oils for topping up between oil changes. Use only oils with the specification API SH or higher.
Ask your BMW center for details concerning the specific "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil" or other synthetic oils that have been approved. You can also call BMW of North America at 1-800-831-1117 or visit this website: http://www.bmwusa.com to obtain this information.
Viscosity ratings
Viscosity is the oil flow rating as established in SAE classes.
The selection of the correct SAE class depends on the climatic conditions in the area where you drive your BMW.
Approved oils are in SAE classes 5W-40 and 5w30. These oils may be used for driving in all ambient temperatures.
But by now, much of this info is a bit obsolete, or at least superseded with better and more detailed info available in BMW's TIS (Technical Information System). Plus, Mobil 1 altered their forumulations and now the ONLY Mobil 1 oil approved for use in this engine is the 0W40. The 5W30 is an ACEA A1 oil with and HTHS of 3.09 as compared to the required minimum of ACEA A3 with an HTHS of 3.5 or more.
There's more info on BMW enegine oil approvals here - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/bmw-longlife-approval-requirements.82108/
In the engine, he's using Mobil 1 5W30 which has it's own issues. Here's what the owner's manual for the 2001 E46 states regarding oil:
Quote:
Specified engine oilsThe quality of the engine oil is extremely important for the function and life of an engine. Based on extensive testing, BMW has approved only certain types of engine oils.
Use only approved "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil."
If you are unable to obtain "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil," you may use small volumes of other approved synthetic oils for topping up between oil changes. Use only oils with the specification API SH or higher.
Ask your BMW center for details concerning the specific "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil" or other synthetic oils that have been approved. You can also call BMW of North America at 1-800-831-1117 or visit this website: http://www.bmwusa.com to obtain this information.
Viscosity ratings
Viscosity is the oil flow rating as established in SAE classes.
The selection of the correct SAE class depends on the climatic conditions in the area where you drive your BMW.
Approved oils are in SAE classes 5W-40 and 5w30. These oils may be used for driving in all ambient temperatures.
But by now, much of this info is a bit obsolete, or at least superseded with better and more detailed info available in BMW's TIS (Technical Information System). Plus, Mobil 1 altered their forumulations and now the ONLY Mobil 1 oil approved for use in this engine is the 0W40. The 5W30 is an ACEA A1 oil with and HTHS of 3.09 as compared to the required minimum of ACEA A3 with an HTHS of 3.5 or more.
There's more info on BMW enegine oil approvals here - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/bmw-longlife-approval-requirements.82108/
Redline 5W30 HTHS 3.8 5W40 4.6. A 50/50 blend could be just right for the 2001 2.5 engine but I'm open to suggestions. Mobil 1 0W40 is readily available as is Delvac 1 5W40
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
Originally Posted By: jpr
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
I don't think you should just discount home-brewing. Unlike (oil) companies, I don't need to base my decisions with the "bottom-line" in mind. Well, not for a few quarts of oil...
At worst, you see no added benefits with the blend. At best, you get to discover a remarkable performing motor oil blend, and then share that info with your fellow Bitoger's.
I'll be posting results of my 1st blend, shortly. This should be my first of possibly three such 'home-brew' blends. I just changed over to my 2nd blend, RLI based, but am planning on using Red Line's 5w30, in my third blend. I'll be sure and post the results.
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
I don't think you should just discount home-brewing. Unlike (oil) companies, I don't need to base my decisions with the "bottom-line" in mind. Well, not for a few quarts of oil...
At worst, you see no added benefits with the blend. At best, you get to discover a remarkable performing motor oil blend, and then share that info with your fellow Bitoger's.
I'll be posting results of my 1st blend, shortly. This should be my first of possibly three such 'home-brew' blends. I just changed over to my 2nd blend, RLI based, but am planning on using Red Line's 5w30, in my third blend. I'll be sure and post the results.
No worries on my end.
In an analogous way, I know a few folks who are very passionate about brewing their own beer. Personally I've come to the same two conclusions on the matter.
But I figure it's one of things where the enjoyment of the process is a prime motivator.
In an analogous way, I know a few folks who are very passionate about brewing their own beer. Personally I've come to the same two conclusions on the matter.
But I figure it's one of things where the enjoyment of the process is a prime motivator.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: jpr
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
Regarding (2).....on what do you base that conclusion?
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
Regarding (2).....on what do you base that conclusion?
Originally Posted By: harrydog
Originally Posted By: jpr
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
Regarding (2).....on what do you base that conclusion?
On a lot of time reading what knowledgeable people have to say on the matter. If you've been around here since 7/03, I'm certain you've already participated in many debates and discussions on the subject. It's even come up in this recent thread - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fuel-economy-esters-moly.84157/
Again, I think the analogy with homebrew beer is an apt one. Most of it ranges from drinkable to terrible. Some can pretty good, but I have yet to find one that's better than what I can pick up at the store a whole lot quicker, easier, and cheaper.
Originally Posted By: jpr
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
Regarding (2).....on what do you base that conclusion?
On a lot of time reading what knowledgeable people have to say on the matter. If you've been around here since 7/03, I'm certain you've already participated in many debates and discussions on the subject. It's even come up in this recent thread - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fuel-economy-esters-moly.84157/
Again, I think the analogy with homebrew beer is an apt one. Most of it ranges from drinkable to terrible. Some can pretty good, but I have yet to find one that's better than what I can pick up at the store a whole lot quicker, easier, and cheaper.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: jpr
Originally Posted By: harrydog
Originally Posted By: jpr
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
Regarding (2).....on what do you base that conclusion?
On a lot of time reading what knowledgeable people have to say on the matter. If you've been around here since 7/03, I'm certain you've already participated in many debates and discussions on the subject. It's even come up in this recent thread - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fuel-economy-esters-moly.84157/
Again, I think the analogy with homebrew beer is an apt one. Most of it ranges from drinkable to terrible. Some can pretty good, but I have yet to find one that's better than what I can pick up at the store a whole lot quicker, easier, and cheaper.
This debate has finally veered off topic enough that I can wade in with my expert opinion. I know more about beer than oil...a lot more.
If you can't find a home-brewed beer that is superior to the over-the-counter watered-down plonk you Americans quaff, then that is a sad commentary on the state of the American home-brewer.
I have tasted a number of home-brewed beers that were better than the typical over-the-counter Canadian beer (which in itself is a more robust 5% alcohol bv brew). Personally, I prefer products from our local micro-breweries and/or craft brewers which are available over-the-counter.
I don't have any experience with Redline oil. I have my priorities...
Originally Posted By: harrydog
Originally Posted By: jpr
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
Regarding (2).....on what do you base that conclusion?
On a lot of time reading what knowledgeable people have to say on the matter. If you've been around here since 7/03, I'm certain you've already participated in many debates and discussions on the subject. It's even come up in this recent thread - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fuel-economy-esters-moly.84157/
Again, I think the analogy with homebrew beer is an apt one. Most of it ranges from drinkable to terrible. Some can pretty good, but I have yet to find one that's better than what I can pick up at the store a whole lot quicker, easier, and cheaper.
This debate has finally veered off topic enough that I can wade in with my expert opinion. I know more about beer than oil...a lot more.
If you can't find a home-brewed beer that is superior to the over-the-counter watered-down plonk you Americans quaff, then that is a sad commentary on the state of the American home-brewer.
I have tasted a number of home-brewed beers that were better than the typical over-the-counter Canadian beer (which in itself is a more robust 5% alcohol bv brew). Personally, I prefer products from our local micro-breweries and/or craft brewers which are available over-the-counter.
I don't have any experience with Redline oil. I have my priorities...
Originally Posted By: BullyT
Originally Posted By: jpr
Originally Posted By: harrydog
Originally Posted By: jpr
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
Regarding (2).....on what do you base that conclusion?
On a lot of time reading what knowledgeable people have to say on the matter. If you've been around here since 7/03, I'm certain you've already participated in many debates and discussions on the subject. It's even come up in this recent thread - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fuel-economy-esters-moly.84157/
Again, I think the analogy with homebrew beer is an apt one. Most of it ranges from drinkable to terrible. Some can pretty good, but I have yet to find one that's better than what I can pick up at the store a whole lot quicker, easier, and cheaper.
This debate has finally veered off topic enough that I can wade in with my expert opinion. I know more about beer than oil...a lot more.
If you can't find a home-brewed beer that is superior to the over-the-counter watered-down plonk you Americans quaff, then that is a sad commentary on the state of the American home-brewer.
I have tasted a number of home-brewed beers that were better than the typical over-the-counter Canadian beer (which in itself is a more robust 5% alcohol bv brew). Personally, I prefer products from our local micro-breweries and/or craft brewers which are available over-the-counter.
I don't have any experience with Redline oil. I have my priorities...
I'm with you, with beer as oil, it all depends upon what you're comparing it against. There's a lot a junk beer out there just as there is a lot of junk oil. But there's an awful lot of a very good micro- to macro- beers available in our supermarkets. That's the standard against which I was thinking when making the comparison.
And on a related note, other than the "black and tan", I can't really think of any use for mixing beers.
Originally Posted By: jpr
Originally Posted By: harrydog
Originally Posted By: jpr
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
Regarding (2).....on what do you base that conclusion?
On a lot of time reading what knowledgeable people have to say on the matter. If you've been around here since 7/03, I'm certain you've already participated in many debates and discussions on the subject. It's even come up in this recent thread - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fuel-economy-esters-moly.84157/
Again, I think the analogy with homebrew beer is an apt one. Most of it ranges from drinkable to terrible. Some can pretty good, but I have yet to find one that's better than what I can pick up at the store a whole lot quicker, easier, and cheaper.
This debate has finally veered off topic enough that I can wade in with my expert opinion. I know more about beer than oil...a lot more.
If you can't find a home-brewed beer that is superior to the over-the-counter watered-down plonk you Americans quaff, then that is a sad commentary on the state of the American home-brewer.
I have tasted a number of home-brewed beers that were better than the typical over-the-counter Canadian beer (which in itself is a more robust 5% alcohol bv brew). Personally, I prefer products from our local micro-breweries and/or craft brewers which are available over-the-counter.
I don't have any experience with Redline oil. I have my priorities...
I'm with you, with beer as oil, it all depends upon what you're comparing it against. There's a lot a junk beer out there just as there is a lot of junk oil. But there's an awful lot of a very good micro- to macro- beers available in our supermarkets. That's the standard against which I was thinking when making the comparison.
And on a related note, other than the "black and tan", I can't really think of any use for mixing beers.
Originally Posted By: jpr
Originally Posted By: BullyT
Originally Posted By: jpr
Originally Posted By: harrydog
Originally Posted By: jpr
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
Regarding (2).....on what do you base that conclusion?
On a lot of time reading what knowledgeable people have to say on the matter. If you've been around here since 7/03, I'm certain you've already participated in many debates and discussions on the subject. It's even come up in this recent thread - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fuel-economy-esters-moly.84157/
Again, I think the analogy with homebrew beer is an apt one. Most of it ranges from drinkable to terrible. Some can pretty good, but I have yet to find one that's better than what I can pick up at the store a whole lot quicker, easier, and cheaper.
This debate has finally veered off topic enough that I can wade in with my expert opinion. I know more about beer than oil...a lot more.
If you can't find a home-brewed beer that is superior to the over-the-counter watered-down plonk you Americans quaff, then that is a sad commentary on the state of the American home-brewer.
I have tasted a number of home-brewed beers that were better than the typical over-the-counter Canadian beer (which in itself is a more robust 5% alcohol bv brew). Personally, I prefer products from our local micro-breweries and/or craft brewers which are available over-the-counter.
I don't have any experience with Redline oil. I have my priorities...
I'm with you, with beer as oil, it all depends upon what you're comparing it against. There's a lot a junk beer out there just as there is a lot of junk oil. But there's an awful lot of a very good micro- to macro- beers available in our supermarkets. That's the standard against which I was thinking when making the comparison.
And on a related note, other than the "black and tan", I can't really think of any use for mixing beers.
I envy the fact that you can buy beer - including specialty beers - in your local supermarket. In Ontario (Canada) we can only buy beer at a government-owned beer store. An enlightened creative genius came up with the name "The Beer Store". I'm not kidding.
They were formally called "Brewer's Retail" but I guess a high-ranking civil servant must have felt it wasn't specific enough. And of course, since they're operated by the government, The Beer Stores are closed on holidays--exactly the time when most people get together and enjoy a cold beer.
Originally Posted By: BullyT
Originally Posted By: jpr
Originally Posted By: harrydog
Originally Posted By: jpr
To each his own of course, but the synopsis of all I've read about homebrew blends amounts to:
(1) why bother? with all the selections available just pick one you like in this first place
(2) the result is almost certain to be worse than either oil on it's own
Regarding (2).....on what do you base that conclusion?
On a lot of time reading what knowledgeable people have to say on the matter. If you've been around here since 7/03, I'm certain you've already participated in many debates and discussions on the subject. It's even come up in this recent thread - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fuel-economy-esters-moly.84157/
Again, I think the analogy with homebrew beer is an apt one. Most of it ranges from drinkable to terrible. Some can pretty good, but I have yet to find one that's better than what I can pick up at the store a whole lot quicker, easier, and cheaper.
This debate has finally veered off topic enough that I can wade in with my expert opinion. I know more about beer than oil...a lot more.
If you can't find a home-brewed beer that is superior to the over-the-counter watered-down plonk you Americans quaff, then that is a sad commentary on the state of the American home-brewer.
I have tasted a number of home-brewed beers that were better than the typical over-the-counter Canadian beer (which in itself is a more robust 5% alcohol bv brew). Personally, I prefer products from our local micro-breweries and/or craft brewers which are available over-the-counter.
I don't have any experience with Redline oil. I have my priorities...
I'm with you, with beer as oil, it all depends upon what you're comparing it against. There's a lot a junk beer out there just as there is a lot of junk oil. But there's an awful lot of a very good micro- to macro- beers available in our supermarkets. That's the standard against which I was thinking when making the comparison.
And on a related note, other than the "black and tan", I can't really think of any use for mixing beers.
I envy the fact that you can buy beer - including specialty beers - in your local supermarket. In Ontario (Canada) we can only buy beer at a government-owned beer store. An enlightened creative genius came up with the name "The Beer Store". I'm not kidding.
They were formally called "Brewer's Retail" but I guess a high-ranking civil servant must have felt it wasn't specific enough. And of course, since they're operated by the government, The Beer Stores are closed on holidays--exactly the time when most people get together and enjoy a cold beer.
Interest thread one of the most diverse.
12 pages now, lots of talk a bit too much devaition and too little on the Redline experience.
12 pages now, lots of talk a bit too much devaition and too little on the Redline experience.
My question to redline:
Quote:
Why are you not listed here?
http://eolcs.api.org/FindBrandByViscosity.asp?Viscosity=5W-20
and the answer i received:
Quote:
That is a list of API licensed products, we don't submit any of our products.
These tests are not a quality test but a pass/fail, they are not
mandatory. They are extremely expensive so would add substantially to
the cost of the product, we would also need to reformulate products
reducing the protection offered. Neither of these seem to be a very
good value to our customers.
All that back in Feb.2007.
I agree, good tread.
Quote:
Why are you not listed here?
http://eolcs.api.org/FindBrandByViscosity.asp?Viscosity=5W-20
and the answer i received:
Quote:
That is a list of API licensed products, we don't submit any of our products.
These tests are not a quality test but a pass/fail, they are not
mandatory. They are extremely expensive so would add substantially to
the cost of the product, we would also need to reformulate products
reducing the protection offered. Neither of these seem to be a very
good value to our customers.
All that back in Feb.2007.
I agree, good tread.
I think this has to be the key bit
Quote:
...we would also need to reformulate products...
It makes one wonder just which test or tests in the API specifications are the hang-up.
Quote:
...we would also need to reformulate products...
It makes one wonder just which test or tests in the API specifications are the hang-up.
Quote:
And on a related note, other than the "black and tan", I can't really think of any use for mixing beers.
It's not really a beer mix (its only "beer" component is Guinness), but you really aught to try a Car Bomb.... Mmmm
And on a related note, other than the "black and tan", I can't really think of any use for mixing beers.
It's not really a beer mix (its only "beer" component is Guinness), but you really aught to try a Car Bomb.... Mmmm
Originally Posted By: jpr
I think this has to be the key bit
Quote:
...we would also need to reformulate products...
It makes one wonder just which test or tests in the API specifications are the hang-up.
Specific limitations on various additive levels to begin with I imagine.
I think this has to be the key bit
Quote:
...we would also need to reformulate products...
It makes one wonder just which test or tests in the API specifications are the hang-up.
Specific limitations on various additive levels to begin with I imagine.
What's odd about the simple answer is that API is not that stringent about specific additives. The only one specifically mentioned in the SL rating is phosporus with a 0.10% cap. With SM, the required phosphorus levels are more specific, calling for 0.06% to 0.08%. SM also has a sulfur standard, but this annotated as a "non-critical specification."
Redline does seem to run high phosporus levels of around 1350 to 1450 ppm, which likely disqualifies it. My suspicion though is that is not the only issue with their forumulation in regards to the API required tests.
Redline does seem to run high phosporus levels of around 1350 to 1450 ppm, which likely disqualifies it. My suspicion though is that is not the only issue with their forumulation in regards to the API required tests.
Originally Posted By: buster
I think RL would have trouble meeting fuel economy specs with it's high shear stablity. Most API 20wt oils have a HT/HS of 2.6-2.8. Redline 5w20 - 3.3.
Could be, but there's no economy standard for the API SJ/SL/SM standards. There is for the ILSAC GF-X and ACEA standards, but not the API S-
I think RL would have trouble meeting fuel economy specs with it's high shear stablity. Most API 20wt oils have a HT/HS of 2.6-2.8. Redline 5w20 - 3.3.
Could be, but there's no economy standard for the API SJ/SL/SM standards. There is for the ILSAC GF-X and ACEA standards, but not the API S-
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