Originally Posted By: jpr
Back to the subject at hand, Redline motor oil with an emphasis on use in BMW’s. Since no particular use was mentioned, the default assumption is that the intended use is for standard engine in as street driven car.
Here’s what we know as undisputed facts about Redline
• It is not API approved
• It is not ACEA approved
• It is not BMW approved
• It is not MB, Porsche, or any other manufacturer approved
These approvals are best looked at as a source of information. Having an oil be API approved means it has been subjected to a specific and defined battery of laboratory and engine tests. The approval tells us the oil’s demonstrated performance meets or surpasses the defined minimum standards. Likewise, ACEA approval provided information about an oils demonstrated performance to the defined standards for a similar battery of laboratory and engine tests. Manufacturer approvals take this a step further, enhancing the requirements of specific laboratory test results deemed most important to the engine manufacturer. Engine tests are also performed using the manufacturer’s own engines with performance requirements dictated by the manufacturer. While it is not necessary to have one or more of these approvals to produce a high quality engine oil, they do serve clear indicator of what performance you can expect from an engine oil. With the approvals, you have some specific and reliable information. Without them, the lack of information provides only uncertainty. You are free to put as much or as little concern as you want upon this uncertainty, but its presence is indisputable.
So absent any third party approvals, the available sources of technical information about Redline consists solely of the following:
• Technical information provided by Redline
• VOA’s and used oil analysis such as posted here at BITOG
Since the original context was in regards to BMW engines, I’ll limit the analysis to the two most likely grades to be used in an unspecified BMW engine, the 5W30 and the 5W40. Here’s the key viscosity data as available from Redline:
• 5W30
o Kv100 – 10.6
o Kv40 – 62.0
o HT/HS – 3.8
• 5W40
o Kv100 – 15.1
o Kv40 – 94.0
o HT/HS – 4.6
Since we considering using this in a BMW, let’s look at this compares with properties of oils that are BMW approved. Based on a compilation of 60 oils known to be BMW LL-98, LL-01, or LL-04 approved, the following properties are evident:
• Kv100 – average of 13.0; range is from 11.3 to 14.3 (60 data points)
• Kv40 – average of 76.7; range is from 63.6 to 93.0
• HT/HS – average of 3.7; range is from 3.5 to 4.0
As you can see, the kinematic viscosity of the Redline oils is not just significantly different from the BMW approved oil average, they actually fall entirely outside the range. The strong HT/HS performance of the Redline oils is notable, but whether or not it is sufficiently offsetting of the other properties would be an individual judgment call based on one’s particular application and needs.
Based on 7 Redline VOA’s and 5 used oil analysis found here at BITOG, we find the following:
• There is a lot of Moly in Redline, 4~5 times that of any comparable grade oil with any sort of official approval
• At 5,246 miles in a Honda engine, the 5W30 showed elevated iron and copper levels, viscosity has lowered to a Kv100 of 10.1 and a Kv40 of 56.3
• At 10,000 miles in a Ford engine, the 5W30 showed elevated iron and lead levels (lifter and camshaft work was performed at 7k), viscosity has increased to a Kv100 of 11.8
• At 3,880 miles in a modded WRX, the 5W40 showed somewhat elevated iron and lead levels for the amount of mileage, viscosity has lowered to a Kv100 of 13.3
The moly level could be a source of concern on two fronts. Depending upon which type of moly is being used (and this is not disclosed) there is a possibility of accelerated bearing wear. Also, there is likely to be a higher sulfated ash level (again, there is a lack of data here) which can have consequences in higher piston and combustion chamber deposit levels and higher particulate emissions. Again, you are free to decide how much importance to place on this information based on how closely it correlates to your particular application and needs.
The remaining sources of information are:
• Marketing materials provided by Redline
• Anecdotes, pro and con, about people’s own direct experience
• Hearsay, pro and con, about other people’s experience
As it turns out, Redline seems to be a big fan of Redline, and that is reflected in their marketing materials. There are a lot of broad categorical statements, but no specific supporting data is provided. People’s direct experiences seemed to be mixed bag as well. Some users report problems, some report miracles, it’s up to you decided the relative credibility of each report. Finally, there are the claims, frequently little more than just rumors, about how so-and-so or such-and-such use Redline. The results reported are essentially always limited to very broad generalities free of any technical details. While I’ve never been much a bandwagon guy myself, you are still free to place whatever value upon these stories you deem appropriate.
The common theme here is that it’s your engine, your choice. Look at the information that is available, consider the possible importance of information that is not available, listen to the opinions of those you deem credible, and decide for yourself what’s appropriate for your application and needs.
I think we should also compare the zinc levels of such oils. Redline's compared to some LL approved. If the zinc levels are not present you will not get your extreme pressure protection that is needed.
I haven't looked at Redline so I really don't know their levels.
Anyone looking at running Redline in a BMW should spend some time on the BMW forums. Some have had luck, some have had swollen seals and leaks.
