Expectations

[The Critic]

Have an expectations dilemma for you guys.

Neighbor's 2008 Elantra went to a local indy tire/repair shop for a timing belt and water pump this morning. I had suggested this service about a 9 mo ago, but they finally got around to it today.

Afterwards, the car came to me for an oil change.

Upon checking the car out, I found the following issues with the car:

- No oil on the dipstick. Had been 9k since last oil change per window sticker.
- Front tires at 3/32", rear tires at 8/32"
- Rear brakes at 2mm.
- Cabin filter was original at 100k.
- L/F axle had bad inner joint, vibrates upon acceleration. Oh, and they were the ones who installed this axle recently.
- Front Sway Bar was making a knocking sound over bumps.
- Front tire pressure at 60 psi, rear tire pressure at 40 psi. Vehicle calls for 32 psi.

Of all of the items I found, the only one that the shop mentioned was the need for a tire rotation.

Personally, I would expect any shop to do a basic inspection whenever a vehicle is in for service. Considering that the car went in for a major maintenance service, I would EXPECT the shop to give the vehicle a semi-thorough inspection to advise on any maintenance that needed to be brought up-to-date.

If this vehicle had gone to a dealer - this would not have happened. Every dealer that I've ever dealt with, does a multi-point inspection with any service.

So here's a question to you BITOGers: if you brought your vehicle into a shop for a major maintenance item or repair, would you expect the shop to do a quick inspection and advise on any items that should need attention?

 

[Andy636]

These are the exact kind of careless/clueless owners that are going to scream from the top of their lungs how Hyundai are complete POS just because they once had an Elantra that died on them. It's not the poor car's fault you can't be bothered to measure the tire pressure or pull the dipstick once in a blue moon or that you are to much of a cheapo to service it at a decent shop...geeee.
/rant

And to answer your question, I expect nothing from any shop...I double check everything even after the car has been at the dealership for work/maintenance done while still under warranty.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

My experience with an Indy shops is they tend to do the work you ask them to do. Dealerships and some chain shops tend to look for potential work they can due thus an inspection.

Every vehicle I had has an owner's manual. It may be good for your friend to take a look at it. The oil level and tire pressure is something they should be checking. Some of the other problems may be related to the high tire pressure.

I would also think that if you are clueless with how to take care of a car it is your responsibility to ask to have things checked over.

Just had a Indy Shop put in timing set and water pump in the Lexus. That was to resolve water pump noise. Unlike a dealership I liked the fact you did not get a call with the other $300 of things to add to bill like cleaning a clean throttle body. One reason I use Indy shops is for this very reason.

 

[Clevy]

If I'm taking my vehicle into the shop I tell them what I want fixed,and they fix it. I don't want them so much as to even glance at anything else.
Here shop rate at any chain or major name is 120 an hour minimum. I don't want them to take half an hour loligaging "inspecting" and potentially breaking something that didn't need fixing but does now.
Besides,if they do look and find something suck as worn brakes by law they cannot let a potential safety hazard back on the road which means I have to pony up for new brakes or I can't take my vehicle.
The shop also reports the defect to the licensing board which means if I decide to do the brakes myself,after paying to get it towed home I have to get it inspected by an accredited shop to remove the insurance suspension that was tacked on when the shop that reported the safety issue to the insurance board.
So after a 60 dollar tow,a 120 dollar inspection and the shop rate for the original 'look over" that found the problem in the first place I'm looking at 240 out of pocket,and that's if I fix them myself.
So no,I don't want any shop looking over my car as a favour,thanks.
And who's to say they don't sabotage something in order to get a bit more work in the whole inspection process. You can't tell me some shops don't loosen the belt tensioner bolt or cut suspension bushings to get a few more bucks from an unsuspecting consumer. It happens all the time.
Fix what I asked to get fixed and don't even think about touching anything else.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
If this vehicle had gone to a dealer - this would not have happened. Every dealer that I've ever dealt with, does a multi-point inspection with any service....

So here's a question to you BITOGers: if you brought your vehicle into a shop for a major maintenance item or repair, would you expect the shop to do a quick inspection and advise on any items that should need attention?

Most of the shops I have dealt with will check such things. It's usually a no-brainer for a place that does a lot of tires to check brakes, of course, and tire wear. And if they did a timing belt and water pump, there's zero excuse for not checking the oil.

Nonetheless, it can be many ways with dealers. Some will check, some will not, and some will invent work for themselves. I've seen Ford internal documentation years ago where they want their people to look for work, but under the guise of helping the customer, rather than creating unnecessary work. Individual techs will, however, interpret things in their own ways.

 

[CharBaby]

I'm kind'a on the fence with this question.

1) Yes. I'd like the shop to check thing out on a vehicle, especially when the car owner spends as much as... "Timing Belt" moneys!

2 No. Because this is what the oil change interval is supposed to check especially when the vehicles' owner doesn't do their own OCI's.

It's almost impossible to expect a shop to check all tires/fluids, regardless if the shop is the dealer or an indy that, when they're really bussy it's car in, car out, next car please! It must be in the shops policy to do such checking!

We as BITOG Members, who do much(even if not all) of our own maintenance and vehicle walk arounds(check fluids, tire psi etc.) can expect this from ourselves.

But, our neighbors who know and do nothing with their vehicle 'cept take'em to quick lubes and drive through car washes(if even that), might expect their local garage/dealer to do some extra steps to ensure their vehicles' won't die in the shops parking lot.

But, I agree that it's the vehicles owner responsibility to at least pay attention to their vehicles maintenance. I know folks that are in both catigories(both genders). I have friends/family(both genders) who at least ask the questions..."Hey, when should I...?" or, "how does this look to you/what do you think?"

And then, I know folks(both genders) who don't do or ask anything to anyone about their vehicle and just drive'em!

 

[demarpaint]

I do what Clevy does, if I bring the car in for a repair, all I want them to do is the repair, and not look for problems. If I don't know the shop I spell it out. OTOH I do most of my own work and check my cars myself.

My son learned in WA when Les Schwab Tire Center tried a little gold digging on my his BMW when I went with him for an estimate for brake repair. I warned him ahead of time, but he didn't want me wasting time visiting him working on his car, which I ended up doing anyway. They wanted to sell him everything but the kitchen sink for a simple front brake job. We left there laughing and Les lost a customer for life. It was a good lesson for my son at the time, and he learned just how much you can save by DIY.

 

[whip]

If the shop finds the missing dip stick, and then recommends a bunch of other needed repairs, many on this forum would label them as a crooked shop. If it was serviced at a dealer, and this happened, the outrage would be double.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I do what Clevy does, if I bring the car in for a repair, all I want them to do is the repair, and not look for problems. If I don't know the shop I spell it out. OTOH I do most of my own work and check my cars myself.

My son learned in WA when Les Schwab Tire Center tried a little gold digging on my his BMW when I went with him for an estimate for brake repair. I warned him ahead of time, but he didn't want me wasting time visiting him working on his car, which I ended up doing anyway. They wanted to sell him everything but the kitchen sink for a simple front brake job. We left there laughing and Les lost a customer for life. It was a good lesson for my son at the time, and he learned just how much you can save by DIY.



Yep. When I was a kid I got taken to the cleaners a few times. That drove me to DIY. Bought a manual, enrolled in classes, got certified, bought the tools, etc. I have taught my kids that DIAGNOSIS is where the skill lies, anyone can be a parts changer. Many shops I have seen do nothing but throw new parts at your car until it is "fixed".

There's enough bad shops out there, both small and large, that any and all outrage seems very justifiable these days!

 

[rjundi]

The shop was very busy and not on a fishing trip for more work. Also sometimes if a customer never comes in and is paying a hefty bill they tend to hold back on excess work till hopefully the next visit.

 

[Sayjac]

Sounds more to me like clueless and neglectful owners more than anything else. Stupid is as stupid does. I suppose it's an easy one to turn into an " if this vehicle had gone to a dealer" it wouldn't have happened. Perhaps. Or perhaps they would have been given so much upsell they couldn't have known what was really important. Or, the timing belt and water pump service would have been so expensive to begin with they couldn't have afforded it.

My last visit to the stealership for warranty work they wanted to upsell me for an unneeded tire rotation, balance and alignment for their then special $100. Passed.

Some suggestions for your neighbors to help with some of the issues.

Since they obviously haven't read the owner manual show them the maintenance section and point out where the items on your detailed list can found with maintenance intervals listed.

Then pop the hood and show them the dipstick and how easily checked it is, and where the safe zone is on the dipstick.

For the tires, point them to the nearest Discount Tire/Americas Tire for a free tire rotation and air check. If the tires or not able to be rotated because of this owner's neglect, they will be treated professionally and fairly in the purchase of tires.

Bottom line here, the owners have clearly neglected this vehicle, period. Whether going to the stealership 'might' have improved the situation is doubtful based on the fact it's clear they don't regularly maintain said vehicle in the first place.

Since you seem to take an interest in servicing your neighbors vehicle, you should offer your service for a moderate fee then you know those items are being taken care of. That is of course assuming they want them done.

As for the question, 'just me' but I'm not biting on the stealership versus independent theme here. Neither can make up for an undisciplined and neglectful owner. The owner is the first line in car maintenance, and that starts with caring which based on the profile given, these folks don't.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Have an expectations dilemma for you guys.

Neighbor's 2008 Elantra went to a local indy tire/repair shop for a timing belt and water pump this morning. I had suggested this service about a 9 mo ago, but they finally got around to it today.

Afterwards, the car came to me for an oil change.

Upon checking the car out, I found the following issues with the car:

- No oil on the dipstick. Had been 9k since last oil change per window sticker.
- Front tires at 3/32", rear tires at 8/32"
- Rear brakes at 2mm.
- Cabin filter was original at 100k.
- L/F axle had bad inner joint, vibrates upon acceleration. Oh, and they were the ones who installed this axle recently.
- Front Sway Bar was making a knocking sound over bumps.
- Front tire pressure at 60 psi, rear tire pressure at 40 psi. Vehicle calls for 32 psi.

Of all of the items I found, the only one that the shop mentioned was the need for a tire rotation.

Personally, I would expect any shop to do a basic inspection whenever a vehicle is in for service. Considering that the car went in for a major maintenance service, I would EXPECT the shop to give the vehicle a semi-thorough inspection to advise on any maintenance that needed to be brought up-to-date.

If this vehicle had gone to a dealer - this would not have happened. Every dealer that I've ever dealt with, does a multi-point inspection with any service.

So here's a question to you BITOGers: if you brought your vehicle into a shop for a major maintenance item or repair, would you expect the shop to do a quick inspection and advise on any items that should need attention?


Was the shop mainly a repair shop that sells a few tires, or mainly a tire shop that does a few repairs? There is a big difference in my mind.

Why didn't your neighbor have the shop do the oil while they were at it?

You neighbor is ultimately responsible for the oil situation.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Have an expectations dilemma for you guys.

...

So here's a question to you BITOGers: if you brought your vehicle into a shop for a major maintenance item or repair, would you expect the shop to do a quick inspection and advise on any items that should need attention?



Easiest thing is to always make it very clear to the shop whether or not they are to do any work or inspections other than what the vehicle is being brought in for. Some shops offer to do inspections, some don't. I just make sure to explicitly tell them.

 

[larryinnewyork]

If a Father does not have 1 million dollars for his Son to inherite, teach him the skills to do his own auto P.M. / repairs.
Also, electrical, plumbing, carpentry etc.

With the loss of so many jobs to China, it's the only way the average guy can survive today.

 

[supton]

I dunno. I'm usually not interested in a shop doing a fishing trip for extra work. That said, if the mechanic finds stuff blatantly wrong then I hope they point it out. If I'm at a specialist (like usual for my VW) then I actually like when they look for extra stuff, since they know the problem areas better than me. Of course I'm usually kicking around in the shop when this is going on, asking questions.

Besides, the annual safety inspection will find the unsafe stuff.

 

[Rolla07]

A smart shop would. Its the likelihood of finding other issues to fix..=$$$$$. But again, some places cant be bothered. Im sure my dealer doesnt do much of an inspection.

 

[Propflux01]

If I see and were asked to work a vehicle that has been abused maintenance-wise as this one is, I wouldn't look either. I am willing to bet that not only is the basic maintenance not been done, but the interior and exterior has not been taken care of either. just my luck I would work on it, and as soon as she drove off with it and something broke, it would be my fault. Notwithstanding the manufacturer would also get blamed for making the POS car...

I'd be real careful working on this...

 

[HyundaiGuy]

Originally Posted By: whip
If the shop finds the missing dip stick, and then recommends a bunch of other needed repairs, many on this forum would label them as a crooked shop. If it was serviced at a dealer, and this happened, the outrage would be double.


Agreed. shop owners have it rough. If they point out extra needed repairs, the average owner who doesn't understand cars or care about them like we do will be labeled as greedy and the car owner won't go back.

I remember reading that someone in the car business said that the vast majority of the cars 3 years or older are actually "rough book" cars due to negligence and lack of service. I believe it.

 

[Falken]

I agree, I don't want a shop to even check my oil for me if I am requesting work done.

If I see a "tech" hastily yank apart my air box then throw the filter around my engine compartment I'd blow my lid.

OEM air filters are expensive. Don't yank at my stuff if I don't ask you to.

And, no, I wouldn't want to pay outrageous prices to have my cabin and engine air filters changed by a 17 year old I can do it myself for one quarter the price.

So even if these items actually do need service, I am not going to pay big bucks for simple tasks. Keep your 100$ Mobil 1 oil change.

 

[ottotheclown]