Examples of "low quality" oil?

[4WD]

Interestingly, this is where Mobil's (and I'm sure there are competitor products) EHC "Group II+" (Group II) products enter the picture, due to exactly that problem. The standards and performance requirements drove up formulation costs, so the industry worked to find a way to drive those costs back down.
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There's now even a new ultra-low viscosity EHC base, EHC-20L (2.1-2.6cSt) for formulating the new ultra-light grades while avoiding the cost of Group III.

And last time I checked - over two dozen well known formulators were buying EHC …

 

[Glenda W.]

Quick lube places know that car manufactures request oil sample before they pay warranty claims on blown engines. They do not want the litigation and bill for engines sent out with non spec oil. In fact they will tell you no to conventional oil if your engine calls for synthetic.

What exactly would an oil sample show on a catastrophic engine failure?

 

[4WD]

Group III is a collection of mostly saturated branched hydrocarbons that started with crude oil or natural gas where the molecules were broken and rearranged by man to create a higher performance base oil.

PAO is a collection of saturated branched hydrocarbons that started with crude oil where the molecules were broken and rearranged by man to create a higher performance base oil.

POE is a collection of saturated branched oxygenated hydrocarbons that started mostly with crude oil where the molecules were broken and rearranged by man to create a higher performance base oil.

The end result is higher performance base oils that the industry has chosen to label synthetic.

Who cares how you got there.

And those two are sometimes used in harmony by man …

 

[TiGeo]

What exactly would an oil sample show on a catastrophic engine failure?

Whether it was still serviceable and the viscosity both of which would be something most BITOGers would want to see if the question of a blown motor/UOA was posted here that would be reasonable to look at in that case if they ask for a sample.

 

[Glenda W.]

Whether it was still serviceable and the viscosity both of which would be something most BITOGers would want to see if posted here that would reasonable to look at in that case if they ask for a sample.

The uoa’s I’ve seen after catastrophic engine failure don’t provide much useful data of what oil was used prior to the failure. Not a tool we used to determine warranty denial at the dealership. Not to mention oil related failures are as common as getting struck by lightning.

 

[TiGeo]

The uoa’s I’ve seen after catastrophic engine failure don’t provide much useful data of what oil was used prior to the failure. Not a tool we used to determine warranty denial at the dealership.

I have no idea about what the various manufacturer's look at/ask for/need to approve warranty claims like this but to me, this would be reasonable to do and could provide some clues i.e. oil way out of the recommended viscosity range, depleted/oxidized oil etc. that could indicate a lubrication issue or abuse.

 

[Glenda W.]

I have no idea about what the various manufacturer's look at/ask for/need to approve warranty claims like this but to me, this would be reasonable to do and could provide some clues i.e. oil way out of the recommended viscosity range, depleted/oxidized oil etc. that could indicate a lubrication issue or abuse.

To be honest most uoa’s we did on non catastrophic failures showed a drop in grade on our bulk oil. Not a tool our dealer used often for warranty denial, mostly looking for glycol.

 

[dnewton3]

Regarding the topic of engine failure and oil samples ...

I would think the obvious things they are looking for are gross negligence of required maintenance. We've all seen the videos from "Just Rolled In" (and other similar YT channels) where it's incredibly obvious that oil changes were simply ignored, or improper fluids were introduced (think of someone putting washer fluid in the engine, etc). These kinds of things are quite obvious and are going to be cause for a warranty denial. This is because the failures are quite glaringly atrocious; just an affront to any gear-head sensibilities.

But if an engine seizes under warranty, and the oil "appears" in good shape (it's dark in color, it's not milky, it's thin and not molasses-like and the filter isn't sludged up), then there's no real reason for a dealership to pay the money for a UOA. They're not going to suspect that a SN or SM was used where SP was "required", mainly because there are not outward tell-tale signs of horrific abuse. If the vehicle is a sports car, or a modded diesel truck, they are much more likely to pull the engine programming history and see if the engine has been "tuned"; that would be something they might well be interested in.

I have my serious doubts that any dealership would spend the time/money on worrying about oil brand/grade/spec used as long as there's no outward indication of lubrication problems ( such as sludge under valve cover; sludge on filter media; milkshake oil; coagulated oil; no oil present; etc ... ).

 

[burbguy82]

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Love the fake starburst. I wouldnt use it for gun oil.......

 

[burbguy82]

"Just Rolled In"

That is a great YT channel. Amazing to see how badly some of those cars are treated

 

[mark pruett]

molecules were broken and rearranged by man

Which is essentially the definition of "synthetic", unless we want to get extraordinarily pedantic about the literal dictionary definition.

And that's my point - at this point, all oils are practically synthetic or something awfully close, so the marketing distinction is just marketing fluff.

@Tom NJ has the right of it who cares how you get there!

 

[Sberry]

I inherited a service where the guy had the oil changed a few times at 3 local garages. It didn't have an engine air filter.

 

[Hermann]

Its surprising to me how cheap Walmart is for their most barebones oil change. About $30 OTD for the bottom of the barrel. That's their "pit crew" oil change. Suspect you get a fill of **** oil and a filter, but that's certainly better than nothing. No clue what they use.

Occasionally at random nasty super shady gas stations, the kind of places that sell "water pipes" K2 and Kratom, I'll look over the bottles of oil. Always no name random stuff with questionable labels. But when 90% of the cars pull up without license plates, mufflers, and scream like a siren from power steering pumps, I don't suspect the owners are too interested in preventative maintenance.

I'll bet WalMart is using pretty dang good oil. The CYA factor is high at Wal-Mart

 

[OilStainedNapkin]

I'll bet WalMart is using pretty dang good oil. The CYA factor is high at Wal-Mart

I believe it’s Quaker state syn blend aka qsgb

 

[alcyon]

Triax, Mazlub, Kixx, Mizu, Jetron, Bio-Ray to name a few...

 

[Hohn]

A lot of no name convenience store oils are extremely low quality.

This. I’ve seen “golden state” or whatever on the shelf in small town c-stores. No API listing whatsoever.

 

[4WD]

This. I’ve seen “golden state” or whatever on the shelf in small town c-stores. No API listing whatsoever.

Yep, sitting next to Chevron 5W30 that is a dollar more - but the yellow bottle oil becomes the next spot in the parking lot ...

 

[Hohn]

….Bio-Ray to name a few...

Not to be confused with Bel-ray, the reputable motorcycle lube company.

 

[anndel01]

A company's 1990 Toyota pickup with the 4cyl 22R-E engine I drove for 5 years had 6 month OCIs despite mileage. Changed the oil at a local Chevron Service Station using Chevron Dino oil and whatever filter was cheap. Drove it about 100-150 miles a day and worked in a extremely dusty/hot location. No engine issues and it was sad to leave the company and that little truck behind.

 

[mark pruett]

Or perhaps you could give an answer that doesn’t involve some gross misconception?

You're absolutely right.

"Synthetic" is a marketing term and always has been. There's no agreed upon industry definition for "synthetic", and there are no performance specs for "synthetic". Back in 2004, synthetic oils met API SM just like Group II oils did, and the rest was all marketing. There literally wasn't a way to distinguish between them otherwise, except for the specs. Which were all pretty similar in the end; the manufacturers weren't going to spend extra money beating those specs by much, if there wasn't a way to measure that in the real world for customers. It was a better business decision to beat it by a little and market the hell out of it.