Every OTHER interval filter change - the numbers seem to work

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There have been a couple of threads lately concerning the use of a single oil filter over TWO oil change intervals.

Wix question
Swedish novice

Maybe the interest is because of Gary Allan's testing showing low pressure drops in well-used filters.

Theoretically, a filter's efficiency will increase as it becomes more clogged, so using it twice is a benefit (as long as it doesn't bypass or fail- which doesn't seem likely given Gary's testing). In addition, some cars have filters mounted in "difficult" locations, so only having to get to that location every other time would also be a benefit.

Many people in the above threads (Pablo had good arguments, for example) seem shocked that anybody would even consider using a filter twice, though. The reason is that there is some old oil still lurking in the old filter that would not be changed.

So, I'm looking at some hypothetical math here of keeping an old filter installed. What do you think? Is there really much difference...

1/2 quart of used oil left in filter on an engine that normally takes 4 quarts for a drain and fill,

plus... 1 quart of dirty oil hidden in engine regardless,

yields 70% fresh oil in engine. (Compared to 80% with a filter change).

If your OCI is normally 4000 miles, the 10% extra dirty oil will be like starting out 400 miles into your 4000 mile interval. So if you drop your second interval to 3600 miles, you will have the same level of dirtiness at the next oil change.

If oil is $2/qt, then you normally spend $16 for two 4-qt changes in 8000 miles. Because of the one reduced interval, it is now $16 for 7600 miles or $16.85 converted to 8000 mile equivalent. But, you just saved $3 for a filter.

Economically, then, I see a tiny benefit. Hassle-wise (on cars with difficult filter locations) I see a BIG benefit.

Reducing the OCI seems to make up for the 10% extra dirty oil.

And the filtration was slightly better during the second run.

But, you run a higher risk of filter failure.

What else??? To me, changing the filter only every other time looks like a very reasonable idea.
 
Not really shocked either way, just leaving a dirty filter full of oil on my car gives me a rash, sort like leaving the undies on and showering does.

Thank goodness my filter access is not so nasty.
 
If you go by the particle counts assembled to date on this board...the oil filters have not even begun to load up. That is...if you assert that they improve with age as they plug or load up.

As it stands now...there is a trend towards longer OCIs having dirtier oil. If the filters were beginning to load, the oil should get cleaner. That could be an arguement for double OCI filter use. OTOH, more data is needed.
 
My owner's manual (94 Geo Metro) recommends that if you are not in the "severe service" category, change the oil every 7500 miles and change the filter every other oil change.

15000 miles on an orange can?
dunno.gif
GM says so...
 
quote:

plus... 1 quart of dirty oil hidden in engine regardless,

This is OT, but I've always wondered about this...that is, residual oil in an engine. The other day I changed the oil/filter on my 2.5l Ranger. The owner's manual states 4.5 quarts required; I prefilled the filter with a half quart, and then filled with a full 4.5 quarts (comes up to the "full" line on the dipstick with 5 qts). Now I'm not letting the pan drain overnight or jacking up my truck at various angles to get all the old stuff, so what's the deal? Am I just lucky to get out 99% of the old oil by letting it drain for 15 minutes? Or do automakers take this residual oil into account when determining the lubricant capacity for owner's manuals?

Again, sorry if I highjacked this...
 
"15000 miles on an orange can? GM says so..."


Honda can even beat that, they recommend 20K miles on a Orange can, cleverly painted blue! I don't mind using a FRAM if I really had to use one, but there is no way that I would ever use one, or any filter for that matter for 20K miles.

$.02 of course.
 
Mustang_Cougar... here is an example from a 2AZ-FE Camry from the Toyota service manual:

quote:

Drain and Fill w/ oil filter change 4.0 qts
Drain and Fill w/o oil filter change 3.8 qts
Dry Fill 4.8 qts

I have been getting this car to the full line with a filter change and maybe a little over 4 qts of oil. Who knows how accurately the automakers measure these values or under what conditions. It might be that you get more out if you use ramps so that the car is at an angle draining toward the oil plug. I would suspect the mfrs assume the car is on a lift.

Sorry I don't have the 1ZZFE manual in front of me, I'll try to remember later. But I think it is similar.
 
To supplement what kanling posted, I used to own a car with the 1MZ-FE V-6, also used in the Camry. I no longer have the exact figures, but the pattern was the same. The slightly larger V-6 trapped almost a quart of oil inside its oil system internals, oil that could only be removed by disassembling the engine itself. No amount of waiting, vacuum hosing, tilting the car, or what-have-you will remove this oil. It's there and it's staying.
cheers.gif


EDIT: well, to get a bit back on point, I just don't see any reason NOT to change the filter every time. Even the "overpriced" filters like Mobil-1 and K&N are still relatively inexpensive. The argument is all the more forceful if you're using filters that cost $5 or less. I'm presently seeing outstanding particle counts using a new filter each time. I'm not motivated to leave a semi-loaded filter in place, with used oil inside, in a quest to achieve even further better than needed particle counts.
 
To those who want to run a filter for a double interval, I say, Have Fun!
This has been recommended in many owners manuals for light-duty service for many years, so at worst, it'll probably do no real harm.

On my car, the filter & drain plug are only inches away from each other, & as long as I've gotten out the ramps, spread the newspapers, placed the drain pan, etc, I'm gonna also get the filter wrench & change the oil filter too!

Especially when I can get perfectly good filters for anywhere from $1.34 to $2.07 each.
wink.gif
 
I changed the oil on my bosses fleet of Toyota Trucks in the late 80's (about 8-10 trucks) and we changed the oil once every 8 weeks (4-5000 miles) and the filter every other change. These trucks all had over 200,000 miles on them with no oil problems.
My wife's last car I was planning on an every other oil change filter change (OCI of 6 months) but only did it once before we sold it. The filter was a PITA to get to and she only drove about 3500-4000 miles in 6 months. My car and her van are just too easy to get to now to not change it every oil change.

quote:

Originally posted by Pablo:
Not really shocked either way, just leaving a dirty filter full of oil on my car gives me a rash, sort like leaving the undies on and showering does.

...


Kinda like wiping before you poop, huh?
 
quote:

Originally posted by blupupher:
quote:

Originally posted by Pablo:
Not really shocked either way, just leaving a dirty filter full of oil on my car gives me a rash, sort like leaving the undies on and showering does.

...


Kinda like wiping before you poop, huh?

Or maybe like using the same paper you used the last time...
 
heck, if all cars were designed like BMW and MB, you wouldn't even need to go under the car to change the filter! it's pretty nice using my oil sucker, then unbolting the canister on the top to swap out the oil filter. NO mess for me! No jacking up my car to do a change!
 
"On my car, the filter & drain plug are only inches away from each other, & as long as I've gotten out the ramps, spread the newspapers, placed the drain pan, etc, I'm gonna also get the filter wrench & change the oil filter too!"
-------------------------------------------------------------

Hooray and Booya!
 
Even really good filters are pretty cheap... Why push your luck? If I am getting dirty, I might as well change the filter.
smile.gif
 
Has anyone considered removing the filter and draining it...then replacing? I've done it with MIL's car and a quality filter. I even push in the ADBV to get it fully drained. Double filter CI seems ok with dino oil at a short interval. Say 2 5000mi intervals, MAX. Great for the $.49c/quart Havoline crowd. I am using a P1 for break-in and will remove + drain it for reuse.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Auto-Union:
Has anyone considered removing the filter and draining it...then replacing? I've done it with MIL's car and a quality filter. I even push in the ADBV to get it fully drained. Double filter CI seems ok with dino oil at a short interval. Say 2 5000mi intervals, MAX. Great for the $.49c/quart Havoline crowd. I am using a P1 for break-in and will remove + drain it for reuse.

This is exactly what I was about to make a thread about until I read this. I have a stash of AC Delco UltraGuard Golds, and I was thinking about changing them every other OCI. Gonna do a couple of 3-4K Dino OCI's, and was previously using those filters for longer runs with GC. My OLM goes off every 7K (rougly), so I figure if I drain as much as I can out of them, they should be good for another OCI, right? Sorry, don't wanna do 7K on dino, just not my thing
tongue.gif
 
I suppose there's NO way to tell if a filter's in bypass from being overloaded, though, would that be correct? Even a thread end bypass would allow the filter to warm up as though it was full-flowing, would it not?
 
I was going to start a new thread with a question but figured this one works.
You are talking about re-using a used filter with NEW oil........what about using oil like M1 or PP for 10k OCI's and leaving a filter on there for that amount of time? A)Is it OK? B) Wix, M1's or Pure1?
Oil is crack to us.
 
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