Ever had one of those weird days test driving a car?

[d00df00d]

I feel like most people don't realize how much this car would have to change if Toyota/Subaru gave it the power bump people want while still keeping it a viable retail product. The structure would have to be stiffer, the wheels and tires would have to be fatter, more understeer would have to be dialed in, the brakes and much of the powertrain would have to be beefed up, and a lot of stuff would have to be relocated within the car to keep the weight distribution sane. It'd be much heavier, less playful, less communicative, less telepathically responsive, and its limits would be less approachable (higher and less forgiving) -- and it'd be more expensive to boot. And that'd make it pointless, because it'd be largely indistinguishable from virtually every other sporty car on sale today.

This car is an antidote to the mindless horsepower war that has made cars so silly. It owes most of its advantages to the fact that it doesn't have a lot of power. I can see wanting to squeeze a few more out of it, and I can certainly see wanting to get rid of its insufferable torque dip in the midrange. But a big bump? No, thanks.

 

[MCompact]

When I worked at BMW we had a guy that was responsible for keeping the batteries charged on all the cars on the lot. All new cars had a battery monitor that was visible though the windshield.
The BRZ/86 reminds me of my ti; light, tossable, and fitted with an engine that needs to be kept both of 4,500 rpm to make significant power. I learned a lot driving that car on the track because it didn't have a surplus of hp to cover up mistakes like braking too soon/too much or botching turn in or track out. It's also fun to have a car that you can beat on like a red-headed stepchild without worrying about attracting unwanted interest from law enforcement.

 

[Smokescreen]

"beat on like a red-headed stepchild"

probably one of my favorite descriptive phrases.....I use it all the time !

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by MCompact
When I worked at BMW we had a guy that was responsible for keeping the batteries charged on all the cars on the lot. All new cars had a battery monitor that was visible though the windshield.
The BRZ/86 reminds me of my ti; light, tossable, and fitted with an engine that needs to be kept both of 4,500 rpm to make significant power. I learned a lot driving that car on the track because it didn't have a surplus of hp to cover up mistakes like braking too soon/too much or botching turn in or track out. It's also fun to have a car that you can beat on like a red-headed stepchild without worrying about attracting unwanted interest from law enforcement.

I thought of getting a ti when got my '95 Integra GS-R. However, almost no dealers had any, they were all charging a premium because of the bargain basement price, and that rear end was just weird looking, like someone took a chainsaw to a 318is and cleaned it up. The Integra of course was a different style. I thought 170 HP was plenty, it was relatively lightweight, and that engine would go up to the 8000 redline without hesitation. It had 15" wheels and handled pretty well for a FWD car. However, it did seem to attract law enforcement.

My WRX strangely enough doesn't seem to be a cop magnet. And it's still decent enough handling, but with an engine that .

Strangely enough, I like that BRZ now. I'm sorely tempted since that dealer has about 4-5 2018 models that they want gone. I plan on keeping my WRX, which might need a few fixes, but has served me well for 15 years. And it's something I can take up to the snow if need be.

I don't know how practical a new BRZ would be, but we would still have two older but fairly reliable sedans.

 

[pezzy669]

Ughhh a sportied up Toyota - no thanks. My ex had a tC that felt like it was the replacement for the 2 door Camry.....it might as well have been a Camry.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by pezzy669
Ughhh a sportied up Toyota - no thanks. My ex had a tC that felt like it was the replacement for the 2 door Camry.....it might as well have been a Camry.



To Toyota's credit, they know they can only make a good appliance. Anything that has a spark of fun is either outsourced (BRZ/FRS/86, new Supra) or sent over to Lexus.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by pezzy669
Ughhh a sportied up Toyota - no thanks. My ex had a tC that felt like it was the replacement for the 2 door Camry.....it might as well have been a Camry.


The tC is a FWD econobox that shares a platform with other econoboxes. If you think the 86 is comparable in those respects, it's time to sit down in a comfy chair with your drink of choice and start reading.


Originally Posted by Skippy722
To Toyota's credit, they know they can only make a good appliance. Anything that has a spark of fun is either outsourced (BRZ/FRS/86, new Supra) or sent over to Lexus.

This is roughly true but overstated.

Toyota knows full well how to make a fun car. They know everything Lexus knows, and they race cars.

Also, massive misconception that the Supra was "outsourced." The engine originated with BMW, but Toyota went over it top-to-bottom to make sure it met their standards, including re-engineering certain bits. A few other basic aspects of the car were co-developed with BMW. Everything from there was done separately.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Also, massive misconception that the Supra was "outsourced." The engine originated with BMW, but Toyota went over it top-to-bottom to make sure it met their standards, including re-engineering certain bits. A few other basic aspects of the car were co-developed with BMW. The companies went their separate ways after that. So, safe to say the Supra is very much a Toyota product.

Do you have a source for that?

Everything I have seen, including interior and chassis shots of production cars show that it is a detuned Z4 with an ugly body kit.

It even has iDrive!

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Also, massive misconception that the Supra was "outsourced." The engine originated with BMW, but Toyota went over it top-to-bottom to make sure it met their standards, including re-engineering certain bits. A few other basic aspects of the car were co-developed with BMW. The companies went their separate ways after that. So, safe to say the Supra is very much a Toyota product.

Do you have a source for that?

Everything I have seen, including interior and chassis shots of production cars show that it is a detuned Z4 with an ugly body kit.

It even has iDrive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jbyzmtgU_0

Reiterating to make sure it's clear:

1. The only major part that was arguably "outsourced" by Toyota to BMW was the engine, and even that is a bit dubious because it was so thoroughly gone over by Toyota. I don't consider iDrive (or the diff, or a couple of control arms) to be major parts, so maybe that's where you and I differ.

2. Most of the parts the Supra and Z4 have in common were co-developed by both companies, not outsourced by one to the other.

3. A great deal of each car was developed by its own manufacturer, separately from the other.

 

[y_p_w]

Update. I didn't take my wife on a test drive, but we stopped at a Subaru dealer just to see if we as a family could fit in a BRZ. I went on a test drive with my kid in the back seat and a saleswoman about the the size of my wife in the front passenger seat. However, my wife took one look at how small it was and started to question why I wanted one. She doesn't even care that I want to get a new car with a stick and she can't drive one, but she hates driving to begin with.

We saw many WRXs and one STi on the lot, and she said she thought those would be a far more practical option. And not a single WRX with the CVT.

 

[tig1]

Ran out of diesel in a 1984 Ford Tempo on my test drive. Had to walk back to the dealer about 1.5 miles. Pre cell phone days. Bought the Tempo.

 

[y_p_w]

Just thinking about it, and at one dealer I saw a rolling charger that said something about being battery operated. I think it had a large lead-acid battery and was designed to at least partially charge (or top off) car batteries where they could be really far away from an outlet.