EV lots getting cleaned out.

[Brons2]

I always get a laugh regarding this. To save maybe 1 thousand a year on fuel, people will head off to spend and most likely finance an EV vehicle at atleast $50k.for over five years. Electricity cost isn't even factored in....

If you're already replacing your vehicle anyway, it makes more sense.

That said, the fuel price increases would have cost me more like 1750 a year, or $143/mo driving my prior 14MPG vehicle to work every day on my 60 mile round trip commute. Assuming 16K mi/yr that's over 1100 gallons of gas.

Total cost for 16K mi at 14MPG assuming $3.75 gas is $4285.71, or $357.14 a month.

My Lightning lease is $299.96 a month.

Our electric cost at home has gone up roughly $90 per month with 2 EVs. We use level billing from our utility to even out our summer AC usage year round. Split that $90 in half, and add to the cost of my lease payment, there you go.

$344.96 for my current EV with electricity vs $357.14 for my former paid off gas vehicle at $3.75/gal.

Obviously this comparison would be a lot different if I was coming from a Prius, but I'm 6'7" 300+ and I'm never going to own a Prius, or Corolla or Civic.

Maybe a mid sized crossover would be the smallest ICE I would go. Assuming 25MPG that would be $2400 in gas per year, or $200 per month. But then I would have been switching from a paid off vehicle anyway, and there would be payments on top of that. If it's a $400/mo lease then I'm at $600 a month operating costs with current gas prices.

I'm happy where I'm at...

 

[Brons2]

My XL Yukon is getting 16.2 calculated MPG in town and 20.1 on Highway with the 5.3 before the cylinder deactivation crap. It can haul 8 people and does that often enough. Saves us from using two 30 mpg cars to haul everyone. Front and rear AC works good too. It has 229k miles on it too. I have 2 Mazdas that we use for smaller groups but its fun to go with everyone together.

That's a little better mileage than my former Navigator with 163K, which I posted the fuel costs above as compared to my EV lease.

 

[Brons2]

I'm not sure when they were all procured but my neighborhood is now riddled with Tesla and Chevy EV's.

you meant "blessed" not "riddled"

 

[ammolab]

This is getting so critical I think I'd better stock up on toilet paper.

And ammo. Not sure why, but yes always ammo!

 

[thastinger]

If you're already replacing your vehicle anyway, it makes more sense.

That said, the fuel price increases would have cost me more like 1750 a year, or $143/mo driving my prior 14MPG vehicle to work every day on my 60 mile round trip commute. Assuming 16K mi/yr that's over 1100 gallons of gas.

Total cost for 16K mi at 14MPG assuming $3.75 gas is $4285.71, or $357.14 a month.

My Lightning lease is $299.96 a month.

Our electric cost at home has gone up roughly $90 per month with 2 EVs. We use level billing from our utility to even out our summer AC usage year round. Split that $90 in half, and add to the cost of my lease payment, there you go.

$344.96 for my current EV with electricity vs $357.14 for my former paid off gas vehicle at $3.75/gal.

Obviously this comparison would be a lot different if I was coming from a Prius, but I'm 6'7" 300+ and I'm never going to own a Prius, or Corolla or Civic.

Maybe a mid sized crossover would be the smallest ICE I would go. Assuming 25MPG that would be $2400 in gas per year, or $200 per month. But then I would have been switching from a paid off vehicle anyway, and there would be payments on top of that. If it's a $400/mo lease then I'm at $600 a month operating costs with current gas prices.

I'm happy where I'm at...

Aaaaand you put down how much for the lease and you will have an asset worth how much money at the end of the lease vs your old paid off 14MPG vehicle?

 

[buster]

https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/250-000-miles-and-counting-mustang-mach-e

Editor's Note: As of Jan. 7, 2026, David has achieved over 300,000 miles with no reported changes to his vehicle experience.

 

[Astro14]

EVs also offer a more simplistic drivetrain. Modern automatic transmissions don't seem to be that reliable these days. No transfer cases, 10 speed transmissions, oil changes etc. So there are some other benefits rather than just fuel/charging costs etc.

Despite the EV dependence on software, which is true of all modern vehicles, EVs are remarkably simple mechanically. There is a lot less to break, mechanically, and they tend to be very reliable. I don’t have access to the statistics, but I had several neighbors with Tesla cars, and my son has his Bolt. Zero mechanical/drivability issues. It’s a compelling reason to own one.

In fairness, the plug in hybrid Volvo we leased (I’ve talked about the reasons for doing that - different topic) is very complex mechanically. Four cylinder engine with electric supercharger and water pump, six speed automatic transmission, electric motor, regular cooling system, battery cooling system, it has all of the EV bits, and all of the ICE bits - so, double the “Stuff” to break.

 

[buster]

Despite the EV dependence on software, which is true of all modern vehicles, EVs are remarkably simple mechanically. There is a lot less to break, mechanically, and they tend to be very reliable. I don’t have access to the statistics, but I had several neighbors with Tesla cars, and my son has his Bolt. Zero mechanical/drivability issues. It’s a compelling reason to own one.

My neighbor has a 2018 or 19 Model 3. He told me a few months ago he's only had to change brakes and tires. Charges at hospital where he works and at home.

 

[SC Maintenance]

https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/250-000-miles-and-counting-mustang-mach-e

Editor's Note: As of Jan. 7, 2026, David has achieved over 300,000 miles with no reported changes to his vehicle experience.

While impressive, running an EV constantly is not the same as 300K over 15 years.

We shall see. 30 years experience in industrial controls make me have my doubts.

 

[IndyIan]

Despite the EV dependence on software, which is true of all modern vehicles, EVs are remarkably simple mechanically. There is a lot less to break, mechanically, and they tend to be very reliable. I don’t have access to the statistics, but I had several neighbors with Tesla cars, and my son has his Bolt. Zero mechanical/drivability issues. It’s a compelling reason to own one.

I think the drivetrain simplicity/reliability is drawing people in as well, plus the extra long CARB and EPA warranties on the batteries helps to make sure the expensive components are made well.
It seems manufacture's are still managing to mess up new gas engine and transmission design/or parts quality, but less so in the EV segment?

 

[buster]

I think the drivetrain simplicity/reliability is drawing people in as well, plus the extra long CARB and EPA warranties on the batteries helps to make sure the expensive components are made well.
It seems manufacture's are still managing to mess up new gas engine and transmission design/or parts quality, but less so in the EV segment?

It's questionable. Some say modern cars are better than ever, some think they are less reliable and overly techy causing more issues. Depends on make/model/year. Now that CAFE is being pushed back, maybe we'll see a change for the better within the ICE world.

The drivetrain simplicity is a plus for EVs. I've read something like 40 moving parts compared to 120 in an ICE. AWD/4WD systems have good capability with EVs too due to instant torque and less drivetrain components.

 

[JeffKeryk]

A quick back of envelope estimate on my solar array puts the cost at under 9.7 cents per kWh assuming a 25 year life span. The panels themselves are warranted to produce 92% of faceplate capacity at the end of year 25 which means the assumed life span is conservative. @JeffKeryk may have a better set of numbers given how sunny it is in Califirnia.

We get 330+ days of sunshine. My electricity costs are so low I don't even think about them, and that includes fueling the EV. I pay less for electricity per month than 1/2 tank of gas.

I can do arithmetic. Back around 2015 retirement was looming; my plan was to minimize recurring costs going forward. The solar project was the biggest no-brainer in the world for my use case.

As @demarpaint wisely points out, if you are considering solar, your roof lifespan is a critical factor. You don't wanna remove panels to fix a roof! Even though my roof was at perhaps half-life, I had a new one installed with high quality materials. All part of my long term plan. Now I live dirt cheap.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Interesting, does that factor in the cost of a roof and replacement panels at the end of the roof's life? IIRC they last 10-15 years tops down there. I did the math here and I won't live long enough to see any real savings. FTR I am not being confrontational.

You are wise to do the math. The tough one is considering energy cost increases. Clearly, some areas are better suited for solar than others.
Curious... Do any of your neighbors have solar? That's a key indicator and you can ask their experience.

 

[Brons2]

Aaaaand you put down how much for the lease and you will have an asset worth how much money at the end of the lease vs your old paid off 14MPG vehicle?

Nothing down on the lease. First payment only due at signing. I also paid $375 to have it shipped to my house as opposed to driving or flying to a dealership 4 hours away to pick it up, but that would have been the case also if I bought an ICE vehicle.

There was also a $499 broker fee, which I would do also if I bought an ICE vehicle, because I'm not one to waste my time going to a dealership so I can sit there all day and have them run their playbook on me. I'll pay for the convenience of letting someone else negotiate a great deal for me.

$399 disposition fee at the end of the lease.

The paid off 14MPG vehicle was sold for $2K, and needed a transmission, timing job, and an ABS pump. Oh and one of the blend door actuators on interior was clicking yet again. And the front leather seats were pretty much done because it sat outside for years in the Texas sun. And, and, and....

Vehicles are not assets in any normative sense of the word. They depreciate fast. Eventually the depreciation flattens out, but only if they have no issues. I judged the value of my prior vehicle to be scrap considering the needed repairs, so I took my $2K and ran.

There's lots of arguments all over the Internet about whether leasing makes sense or not, that's really a value judgement that goes beyond ICE vs EV, so, that's really a separate discussion. Many buyers end up trading in upside down vehicles over and over again, we've all seen the stories. Leasing is one way out of that cycle if you frequently want to have new cars. If you want to have a paid off truck for 25 years, fine, some people do that, I'm not one of those people.

I wouldn't mind having a paid off gas tow pig truck for occasional usage, and I've looked at some but I don't currently have room for something like that. We live on a zero lot line single family home type deal, even the Lightning barely fits in the driveway and I usually use the cameras to pull forward enough to not block the sidewalk, while not hitting the garage. I believe there's also HOA rules that forbid street parking something for more than 3 consecutive days in front of your house. Bottom line, we can really only have our daily drivers at home at the present time. Maybe when my kid is grown up we'll move farther out into an acreage type deal and I can have an occasional use vehicle sitting around.

 

[JeffKeryk]

It cost us $1,500 to have the Tesla EV charger installed. We moved sooner than expected, so we never quite paid off the EV charger with the cost savings, but it was close. We knew that was a risk, so we didn’t make the EV charger decision based solely on cost, it was based on several factors - cost savings for this car, ability for our son to charge his Bolt*, future vehicle changes for our family, additional house feature when we sell.

Is it fair to assume the charger increased the value of your property, ot at least is favorable to potential buyers?

 

[Brons2]

While impressive, running an EV constantly is not the same as 300K over 15 years.

We shall see. 30 years experience in industrial controls make me have my doubts.

ICE car is probably going to need major mechanical work after 15 years, of some sort. There's no free lunches, regardless of propulsion type.

I've seen recently a failed GM 6.2 costs $15K to replace at the dealership if for some reason you're not covered by the warranty extension.

 

[Brons2]

Is it fair to assume the charger increased the value of your property, ot at least is favorable to potential buyers?

If they're an EV owner, that would be favorable. For an ICE owner, probably not, but it does give them future options.

 

[AuthorEditor]

I think an EV only makes sense if you can charge easily and cheaply at home most of the time, preferably in a garage up here in the frozen Northeast. That freezes out lots of people who live in apartments. Sure, you can make it work without home charging, but with a lot more hassle. Also, for me charging on trips remains a big hassle. Thinking of the longer trips I do frequently they don't have easy charging at either end, meaning an inconvenient stop at a highway rest area or two I wouldn't normally stop at. Other places I go tend to be pretty rural, like trails or mountains, so I'd have to search out the few chargers available.

 

[4wd]

Kinda reminds me of when my wife goes clothes shopping and "saves money". It's "look honey, I saved 30%", and I say "but you had to spend $125 to do that". She says "better than spending $165". I remind her that she doesn't need new clothes and it usually declines from there. Now I just say they look nice and drink my beer .

My buddy tanked even harder -
“honey, do these make my butt look big?”
“No, it’s the chocolate cake”
Worn out sofa ensued …

 

[Brons2]

I think an EV only makes sense if you can charge easily and cheaply at home most of the time, preferably in a garage up here in the frozen Northeast. That freezes out lots of people who live in apartments. Sure, you can make it work without home charging, but with a lot more hassle. Also, for me charging on trips remains a big hassle. Thinking of the longer trips I do frequently they don't have easy charging at either end, meaning an inconvenient stop at a highway rest area or two I wouldn't normally stop at. Other places I go tend to be pretty rural, like trails or mountains, so I'd have to search out the few chargers available.

*at home or some other arrangement where you get reasonably priced charging. The people at the apartments across the street from my office come park at our chargers after hours when they are allowed to, because the L2 chargers in the parking garage offer utility rate charging. During the business day the charging spots are employees only.