Of course, we all know that it yields fewer miles and takes more dollars. Just ask any professional driver and promptly cover kids' ears if they ahppen to be present. And there are many, many other negative aspects of it..
Ethanol Goodness
- Thread starter Y_K
- Start date
- Status
sadly. thats all we get in ct/ma / new england.. i havent seen any gas station without 10% ethanol in a few years. i really wish they gave us an option. its not really any more enviromentally friendly once you factor in deforestation for cornfields/fertilizers/creating nutrient depleted lands/ harvesting/processing etc.. just a racket by some greedy farming corps. thats been supported by congress. Well. Hey gotta play with the hand your dealt. atleast ethanol is more knock resistant iirc. unfortuntaltey less power density - harder to tune performance wise imho and more corrosive and hygroscopic so rust and corrosion abound in fuel systems now.
I live amongst the farmers....
That graph is a little misleading, as it assumes E0 and E10 cost exactly the same. Around here E10 has always been 10 cents per gallon cheaper than straight gas. If you're paying the same price for E10 as you are for E0, you're being ripped off.
yea.. in NE i have no option. our high gas prices are 10% ethanol - no option for straight gas - no option for e85 no option for biodiesel blends either at any place i have visited (supposedly online theres only a couple places within a 150 mile radius and the prices are exorbitant for biodiesel), and i dont mean to offend anyone by the farmers comment, its just personally imho, it dosent help the small local farmers.. only the ones who already have a a very firm footing in the large scale market.. aka the rich get richer.. (just bitter because im a broke 21 year old lol)
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
That graph is a little misleading, as it assumes E0 and E10 cost exactly the same. Around here E10 has always been 10 cents per gallon cheaper than straight gas. If you're paying the same price for E10 as you are for E0, you're being ripped off.
A lot of people being ripped off in my area, then. Oddly enough, here, some of the E0 stations are actually cheaper than the E10 stations, more times than not.
That graph is a little misleading, as it assumes E0 and E10 cost exactly the same. Around here E10 has always been 10 cents per gallon cheaper than straight gas. If you're paying the same price for E10 as you are for E0, you're being ripped off.
A lot of people being ripped off in my area, then. Oddly enough, here, some of the E0 stations are actually cheaper than the E10 stations, more times than not.
goodness? less money to the middle east, more energy self sufficiency. you can't have it both ways.
i hear that special organic processes will some day soon take ethanol and biodiesel production away from food crops.
you'd rather give your money to a sheik than a farmer?
i hear that special organic processes will some day soon take ethanol and biodiesel production away from food crops.
you'd rather give your money to a sheik than a farmer?
don't forget to read up on the byproducts of combustion from alcohol... it's not pretty. They never talk about that yet it is well documented.
I'd be fine with it if it was 10% less cost!
I'd be fine with it if it was 10% less cost!
a clue... the byproducts end in "...zene" and are deadly.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
don't forget to read up on the byproducts of combustion from alcohol... it's not pretty. They never talk about that yet it is well documented.
I'd be fine with it if it was 10% less cost!
so you want someone to provide you a product for free?
don't forget to read up on the byproducts of combustion from alcohol... it's not pretty. They never talk about that yet it is well documented.
I'd be fine with it if it was 10% less cost!
so you want someone to provide you a product for free?
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Of course, we all know that it yields fewer miles and takes more dollars. Just ask any professional driver and promptly cover kids' ears if they ahppen to be present. And there are many, many other negative aspects of it..
I've never seen ethanol washing up on shore in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama or Florida.
I've never seen ethanol cause the largest man-made disaster the Gulf of Mexico; possibly the largest man-made disaster ever.
I've never seen a tanker full of ethanol run around and spill 11 million gallons in a pristine bay in Alaska.
I've never seen a noticable difference in fuel mileage with 10% ethanol in any vehicle I've owned.
In the 25 or so years I've been using 10% ethanol in everything I own I've never had a fuel related problem (one exception that was my own fault, not the fuel).
I've never seen the money I spend for ethanol sent to countries that would prefer to see my country wiped off the face of the earth.
Yup, you're right. Lots of negatives.
Of course, we all know that it yields fewer miles and takes more dollars. Just ask any professional driver and promptly cover kids' ears if they ahppen to be present. And there are many, many other negative aspects of it..
I've never seen ethanol washing up on shore in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama or Florida.
I've never seen ethanol cause the largest man-made disaster the Gulf of Mexico; possibly the largest man-made disaster ever.
I've never seen a tanker full of ethanol run around and spill 11 million gallons in a pristine bay in Alaska.
I've never seen a noticable difference in fuel mileage with 10% ethanol in any vehicle I've owned.
In the 25 or so years I've been using 10% ethanol in everything I own I've never had a fuel related problem (one exception that was my own fault, not the fuel).
I've never seen the money I spend for ethanol sent to countries that would prefer to see my country wiped off the face of the earth.
Yup, you're right. Lots of negatives.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Of course, we all know that it yields fewer miles and takes more dollars. Just ask any professional driver and promptly cover kids' ears if they ahppen to be present. And there are many, many other negative aspects of it..
I've never seen ethanol washing up on shore in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama or Florida.
I've never seen ethanol cause the largest man-made disaster the Gulf of Mexico; possibly the largest man-made disaster ever.
I've never seen a tanker full of ethanol run around and spill 11 million gallons in a pristine bay in Alaska.
I've never seen a noticable difference in fuel mileage with 10% ethanol in any vehicle I've owned.
In the 25 or so years I've been using 10% ethanol in everything I own I've never had a fuel related problem (one exception that was my own fault, not the fuel).
I've never seen the money I spend for ethanol sent to countries that would prefer to see my country wiped off the face of the earth.
Yup, you're right. Lots of negatives.
You forgot the best part, you WILL see decreased air quality and increased health problems from burning ethanol. Brazil has it all documented already.
Ethanol is bad bad stuff. It is a horrible solution to a problem. Worse yet, ethanol made from corn WILL only exacerbate current problems and provide no solutions other than political ones.
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Of course, we all know that it yields fewer miles and takes more dollars. Just ask any professional driver and promptly cover kids' ears if they ahppen to be present. And there are many, many other negative aspects of it..
I've never seen ethanol washing up on shore in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama or Florida.
I've never seen ethanol cause the largest man-made disaster the Gulf of Mexico; possibly the largest man-made disaster ever.
I've never seen a tanker full of ethanol run around and spill 11 million gallons in a pristine bay in Alaska.
I've never seen a noticable difference in fuel mileage with 10% ethanol in any vehicle I've owned.
In the 25 or so years I've been using 10% ethanol in everything I own I've never had a fuel related problem (one exception that was my own fault, not the fuel).
I've never seen the money I spend for ethanol sent to countries that would prefer to see my country wiped off the face of the earth.
Yup, you're right. Lots of negatives.
You forgot the best part, you WILL see decreased air quality and increased health problems from burning ethanol. Brazil has it all documented already.
Ethanol is bad bad stuff. It is a horrible solution to a problem. Worse yet, ethanol made from corn WILL only exacerbate current problems and provide no solutions other than political ones.
and I've never seen such a poor uneducated person who cannot see the reality behind the fog of politics.
If you never noticed the difference in mileage it's just because you weren't looking!
LOTS of countries would love to see us fall. It's a reality you have to accept, no one likes us because we were WAYYYY out front. But all those that drink the kool aid will soon pull us down so we're just another 3rd rate power.
If you never noticed the difference in mileage it's just because you weren't looking!
LOTS of countries would love to see us fall. It's a reality you have to accept, no one likes us because we were WAYYYY out front. But all those that drink the kool aid will soon pull us down so we're just another 3rd rate power.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
If you never noticed the difference in mileage it's just because you weren't looking!
I've posted this before, but I'll post again. I've graphed the first 18,000 miles on our 2008 Toyota Sienna since it was new. Each bar in the graph is the average of four consecutive tanks. The one black bar is the average of four tanks of E30. I'm not going to draw any conclusions for E30, as four tanks isn't enough of a sample IMO. However, for E10 the conclusion is very clear. For this vehicle the mileage difference between E0 and E10 is vanishingly small. YMMV.
If you never noticed the difference in mileage it's just because you weren't looking!
I've posted this before, but I'll post again. I've graphed the first 18,000 miles on our 2008 Toyota Sienna since it was new. Each bar in the graph is the average of four consecutive tanks. The one black bar is the average of four tanks of E30. I'm not going to draw any conclusions for E30, as four tanks isn't enough of a sample IMO. However, for E10 the conclusion is very clear. For this vehicle the mileage difference between E0 and E10 is vanishingly small. YMMV.
Based on BTU content, E10 has something like 5% less BTUs than straight gasoline. I think it's closer to 3%, actually.
If ethanol contributed absolutely nothing to the combustion process, which isn't the case, than E10 would have a 10% loss of mileage.
If ethanol contributed absolutely nothing to the combustion process, which isn't the case, than E10 would have a 10% loss of mileage.
Kestas
Staff member
I did the math once, and working from memory I believe it's a 4.4% loss of energy value with E10.
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
However, for E10 the conclusion is very clear. For this vehicle the mileage difference between E0 and E10 is vanishingly small. YMMV.
For your vehicle, the conclusion is that your test process was out of control. The differences in 4 tank to 4 tank measurements of E10 far exceeds the ~4% expected difference. Those results are meaningless.
However, for E10 the conclusion is very clear. For this vehicle the mileage difference between E0 and E10 is vanishingly small. YMMV.
For your vehicle, the conclusion is that your test process was out of control. The differences in 4 tank to 4 tank measurements of E10 far exceeds the ~4% expected difference. Those results are meaningless.
Just shows that you need a million plus miles to statistically show a difference. thats as good as not noticing a difference in my books.
and SteveSRT8, namecalling like "a poor uneducated person" is a big call mate, i would not appreciate that being levelled at me.
and SteveSRT8, namecalling like "a poor uneducated person" is a big call mate, i would not appreciate that being levelled at me.
Originally Posted By: crinkles
Just shows that you need a million plus miles to statistically show a difference. thats as good as not noticing a difference in my books.
I agree. If you need to drive a vehicle farther than its normal lifespan to observe a meaningful statistical difference between E0 and E10 fuel, then the difference is too small to worry about.
Just shows that you need a million plus miles to statistically show a difference. thats as good as not noticing a difference in my books.
I agree. If you need to drive a vehicle farther than its normal lifespan to observe a meaningful statistical difference between E0 and E10 fuel, then the difference is too small to worry about.
- Status
Similar threads
