Living in the south, we have a bunch of stations selling gasoline with as much as 10% ethanol. Do any of you folks see a decrease in fuel mileage when using ethanol gas over non-ethanol gas? I have three vehicles 2 Mazdas & 1 Government Motors Impala and all three get worse mileage with ethanol gas.
Ethanol Enhanced Gasoline
- Thread starter oilcoholic
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It's all thats been available here for several years. I don't think my jeep has ever had gas w/o methanol in it.
We still have some stations that sell the "regular" stuff. Just wanted to now about other places. I try my best to fill up all three at tghese places but sometimes it is not convenient and I notice a differance.
Enhanced is a funny word for it.
Yes, I see about 1mpg difference with it. Just enough for it to be noticeable above the noise.
We've had it mandatory since 96. It's not the terrible thing people make it out to be, but yes the mileage does suffer a couple percent.
Yes, I see about 1mpg difference with it. Just enough for it to be noticeable above the noise.
We've had it mandatory since 96. It's not the terrible thing people make it out to be, but yes the mileage does suffer a couple percent.
Worse mileage...All stations here have around 10% corn juice...We have had it now for a couple of years.
Originally Posted By: oilcoholic
We still have some stations that sell the "regular" stuff. Just wanted to now about other places. I try my best to fill up all three at tghese places but sometimes it is not convenient and I notice a differance.
Keep in mind that just because it isn't clearly posted, doesn't mean that it doesn't contain 10% ethanol. Ethanol is commonly used as an oxygenate, in place of MTBE, as required by the Clean Air Act.
We still have some stations that sell the "regular" stuff. Just wanted to now about other places. I try my best to fill up all three at tghese places but sometimes it is not convenient and I notice a differance.
Keep in mind that just because it isn't clearly posted, doesn't mean that it doesn't contain 10% ethanol. Ethanol is commonly used as an oxygenate, in place of MTBE, as required by the Clean Air Act.
In SC if gasoline has ethanol in it, the stations have to have it posted. The Dept. of Agriculture regulates this in our state. Just wanted to see if some other folks were dealing with this.
so dumb, in order to keep the air clean in the cities (urban areas), we now pollute country side (rural areas) where millions of liters of gasoline is burned in farms every year harvesting corn and then mostly via diesel burning trucks (tankers) ethanol is shipped across the north American continent....how SMART! huh...
we accomplished shifting pollution!
we accomplished shifting pollution!
I think it does help winter fuel burn cleaner, and they should allow or mandate between 5 to 10 percent, but only during this season.
Originally Posted By: oilcoholic
In SC if gasoline has ethanol in it, the stations have to have it posted. The Dept. of Agriculture regulates this in our state. Just wanted to see if some other folks were dealing with this.
As of a year ago the Loozyana Dept. of Agriculture mandates it too. Doesn't mean the stations are all complying. I gassed up at an Exxon convenience station (you know, a "Hit It and Run") last week, and there was no notice about ethanol . . . but the pump stickers indicated the station had last been inspected in the summer of 2008.
My car seems to lose about 8-10% mpg on the alcohol stuff, which is no cheaper here than unadulterated gas. I try to stick with stations without the sign posted. Walmart admits to ethanol gas on its pumps, and a lot of the independent places do too, but there are a few holdouts (or scofflaws who haven't posted the warning).
In SC if gasoline has ethanol in it, the stations have to have it posted. The Dept. of Agriculture regulates this in our state. Just wanted to see if some other folks were dealing with this.
As of a year ago the Loozyana Dept. of Agriculture mandates it too. Doesn't mean the stations are all complying. I gassed up at an Exxon convenience station (you know, a "Hit It and Run") last week, and there was no notice about ethanol . . . but the pump stickers indicated the station had last been inspected in the summer of 2008.
My car seems to lose about 8-10% mpg on the alcohol stuff, which is no cheaper here than unadulterated gas. I try to stick with stations without the sign posted. Walmart admits to ethanol gas on its pumps, and a lot of the independent places do too, but there are a few holdouts (or scofflaws who haven't posted the warning).
Kestas
Staff member
Pump labeling used to be required for 10% ethanol in Michigan. Not anymore.
We are now seeing in in most all gasoline stations in Southeast Alabama.
Just south of us in Florida, you see it @ all stations.
I use a UCL when adding fuel.
Keeping tires pumped up properly and a change in driving habits can help makeup for loss in fuel economy.
Just south of us in Florida, you see it @ all stations.
I use a UCL when adding fuel.
Keeping tires pumped up properly and a change in driving habits can help makeup for loss in fuel economy.
I believe within a few years all will be ethanol 'enhanced' If you have a choice with your outdoor power equipment-get the gas without ethanol-ethanol does a number on the carbs if allowed to sit a month or two.
Steve
Steve
Alcohol has about 1/2 the BTUs [energy] of gasoline.
So a 10% mixture is about 5% less powerful. Less MPGs, as well.
Some of this is gained back by it being an self oxygenator. So figure a 3-4% loss.
And it does not matter that alcohol has a high octane [over 100].
The final blend/mix can be obtained by all sorts of octane raising methods. Who cares how?
So a 10% mixture is about 5% less powerful. Less MPGs, as well.
Some of this is gained back by it being an self oxygenator. So figure a 3-4% loss.
And it does not matter that alcohol has a high octane [over 100].
The final blend/mix can be obtained by all sorts of octane raising methods. Who cares how?
I live in S.MS and Chevron was one of the only places where you could get NON ethanol gas but not since about a week ago. FWIW, I assume all of our fuel comes from the Southern part of Loozyana as the other poster called it, down in Plaqamines Parish, Murphy refining I assume? Even the Exxon fuel has it too. I hate this stuff cause of all the ill effects it has on my small engine stuff, it reeks havoc on fuel lines and carbs too on my mowers, weedeaters and the likes so I tend to stay away from it in cars too. Or,should I say, I did stay away from it.
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Small engines may need jetting recalibration with ethanol fuels [a bit more fuel flow].
But there shouldn't be any corrosive or sludgy problems with ethanol/gas. Methanol is another story - it is brutal.
But there shouldn't be any corrosive or sludgy problems with ethanol/gas. Methanol is another story - it is brutal.
http://www.buyrealgas.com/
More places to look and as our politicians stamp out our ability to buy the products we want you can help clean up the list.
More places to look and as our politicians stamp out our ability to buy the products we want you can help clean up the list.
4.3% mileage reduction (E10) is the calulated value for those interested. The mileage loss for E85 jumps to 24.6%
What is the source for those mpg reduction calculations?
Source: Simple math. Pick a site that publishes some energy numbers.
http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/energy_conv.html
Ethanol = 75,700 Btu/gallon
Gasoline = US gallon = 115,000 BTU
Gallon of E10: 0.1*75,700 + 0.9*115,000 = 111,070 BTU.
Gallon of E10 will have 111,070/115,000 = 96.6% the energy of a gallon of gasoline which should translate to a 3.4% loss of efficiency. Put this formula into a spreadsheet and you can calculate the percent loss for any concentration of Ethanol.
Everyone gets a different calculated loss because the published BTU for gasoline varies.
The loss should be 3% to 4%. Unfortunately in practice the loss claims seem to average around 10%. Some claim a small improvement and some claim as high as 30% loss. Any loss above 10% the ethanol is not only providing no value, it's forcing you to burn more gasoline than you would have if the ethanol were discarded. When the non renewable fossil fuel, water, and increased small engine service costs are included the break point is much less than 10%. There isn't much room between 4% and 10%.
How this helps pollution or the economy is beyond me. Even if no one ever saw losses above the theoretical ~4% I would not consider Ethanol for fuel a good deal.
http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/energy_conv.html
Ethanol = 75,700 Btu/gallon
Gasoline = US gallon = 115,000 BTU
Gallon of E10: 0.1*75,700 + 0.9*115,000 = 111,070 BTU.
Gallon of E10 will have 111,070/115,000 = 96.6% the energy of a gallon of gasoline which should translate to a 3.4% loss of efficiency. Put this formula into a spreadsheet and you can calculate the percent loss for any concentration of Ethanol.
Everyone gets a different calculated loss because the published BTU for gasoline varies.
The loss should be 3% to 4%. Unfortunately in practice the loss claims seem to average around 10%. Some claim a small improvement and some claim as high as 30% loss. Any loss above 10% the ethanol is not only providing no value, it's forcing you to burn more gasoline than you would have if the ethanol were discarded. When the non renewable fossil fuel, water, and increased small engine service costs are included the break point is much less than 10%. There isn't much room between 4% and 10%.
How this helps pollution or the economy is beyond me. Even if no one ever saw losses above the theoretical ~4% I would not consider Ethanol for fuel a good deal.
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