I'm considering buying a modern diesel sedan, an MB E320 CDI, if it matters. For several years now I've been going to a lone station in town which sells ethanol-free gas, and seeing better gas mileage than with ethanol-laced Chevron or Exxon. Probably I'll continue going to his station. But I wonder: Is there any difference in diesel at major U.S. stations? The gasoline is adulterated with ethanol at most stations. Has the U.S. government mandated some kind of wrong-headed adulteration for diesel fuel? Or (given that the car runs well and gets good mileage on the fuel) is there no difference except in price?
Any difference in diesel at US stations?
- Thread starter Benzadmiral
- Start date
- Status
JHZR2
Staff member
Ive on occasion found that Dieselect fuel from Gulf stations yielded a tiny bit better mileage.
Ive scoped out B5 fuel for lubricity and cleanliness from time to time and found minimal penalty.
Id love an E320CDI as well.
Ive scoped out B5 fuel for lubricity and cleanliness from time to time and found minimal penalty.
Id love an E320CDI as well.
The gummint has no mandate for any wrong-headed adulteration with diesel, however they do put out an exceedingly junky spec - low cetane & low lubricity. If you can find a low blend of quality biodiesel near you, I would use it without hesitation to address both issues. Nearly all our diesel in Illinois is B11, which runs beautifully in my Golf.
Most stations what have high turnover are the place to go as water contamination in diesel is the way most of them go wrong.
Most stations what have high turnover are the place to go as water contamination in diesel is the way most of them go wrong.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Ive on occasion found that Dieselect fuel from Gulf stations yielded a tiny bit better mileage.
Ive scoped out B5 fuel for lubricity and cleanliness from time to time and found minimal penalty.
Id love an E320CDI as well.
So I need to look for a specific Bx number on the pump? The higher the better?
Scurvy, the station I go to has a good turnover on the gas pumps -- sensible people who are willing to pay 5% more for gas to get 10% better mileage. I'll have to look at the diesel pumps. There's a truck stop station a mile farther down the road, though.
JHZR2, Nothing set about the CDI yet. I sat in it yesterday, loved it, will drive it this week. Everything I hear about the driving experience of the modern Benz, and the fuel economy of the OM642 diesel, are big pros; the maintenance costs ($12/quart for the approved oil???) are big cons.
Ive on occasion found that Dieselect fuel from Gulf stations yielded a tiny bit better mileage.
Ive scoped out B5 fuel for lubricity and cleanliness from time to time and found minimal penalty.
Id love an E320CDI as well.
So I need to look for a specific Bx number on the pump? The higher the better?
Scurvy, the station I go to has a good turnover on the gas pumps -- sensible people who are willing to pay 5% more for gas to get 10% better mileage. I'll have to look at the diesel pumps. There's a truck stop station a mile farther down the road, though.
JHZR2, Nothing set about the CDI yet. I sat in it yesterday, loved it, will drive it this week. Everything I hear about the driving experience of the modern Benz, and the fuel economy of the OM642 diesel, are big pros; the maintenance costs ($12/quart for the approved oil???) are big cons.
The biggest difference would be in areas that sell "winter blend". They can cut it with kero, #2 and even gas. I am not sure there is a standard for "winter blend".
Amsoil should sell an oil that would be excellent for less than $12. Remember you cannot be forced to use a MB oil unless they provide it for free. If there is a problem, they must prove using another oil caused the problem.
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
Everything I hear about the driving experience of the modern Benz, and the fuel economy of the OM642 diesel, are big pros; the maintenance costs ($12/quart for the approved oil???) are big cons.
The Benz oil spec is 229.51, which is not a common spec. You can find it as a Mobil 1 spec oil. Valvoline makes one as well. Given the at least 10,000 mile OCI ( maay be up to 14,000 miles for 2013 MY), it brings the $/mile down somewhat. The oil and fuel filters are not cheap either (at least in Canada). While in warranty, I would recommend OEM filters - one less battle to fight. I have had one 2011 spec 3.0 liter MB diesel fail in our fleet at 32,000 kms. We go OEM everything, filters, oil and OCI.
Everything I hear about the driving experience of the modern Benz, and the fuel economy of the OM642 diesel, are big pros; the maintenance costs ($12/quart for the approved oil???) are big cons.
The Benz oil spec is 229.51, which is not a common spec. You can find it as a Mobil 1 spec oil. Valvoline makes one as well. Given the at least 10,000 mile OCI ( maay be up to 14,000 miles for 2013 MY), it brings the $/mile down somewhat. The oil and fuel filters are not cheap either (at least in Canada). While in warranty, I would recommend OEM filters - one less battle to fight. I have had one 2011 spec 3.0 liter MB diesel fail in our fleet at 32,000 kms. We go OEM everything, filters, oil and OCI.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
The gasoline is adulterated with ethanol at most stations. Has the U.S. government mandated some kind of wrong-headed adulteration for diesel fuel? Or (given that the car runs well and gets good mileage on the fuel) is there no difference except in price?
Living in ag country, I know there is a difference in diesel fuels, although it's probably nothing to be concerned about if you are driving a diesel car or pickup. Most of your truck stops really won't have anything but your common diesel fuel needed to satisfy the engine of a semi truck. During the cold winter months, your diesel suppliers will mix #1 diesel with #2 diesel to stop it from gelling. Depending on the diesel fuel, the gelling starts about 20 to 25 degrees. The diesel truck drivers will also mix in their "secret" anti-gel additives that most truck stops sell and there are several different brands. Probably the main thing that the government has done to diesel fuel in the last 10 years is to take most of the sulfur out of it. I will shop for a top-tier gas if the price is competitive, but I wouldn't worry about the differences is diesel fuel as much.
The gasoline is adulterated with ethanol at most stations. Has the U.S. government mandated some kind of wrong-headed adulteration for diesel fuel? Or (given that the car runs well and gets good mileage on the fuel) is there no difference except in price?
Living in ag country, I know there is a difference in diesel fuels, although it's probably nothing to be concerned about if you are driving a diesel car or pickup. Most of your truck stops really won't have anything but your common diesel fuel needed to satisfy the engine of a semi truck. During the cold winter months, your diesel suppliers will mix #1 diesel with #2 diesel to stop it from gelling. Depending on the diesel fuel, the gelling starts about 20 to 25 degrees. The diesel truck drivers will also mix in their "secret" anti-gel additives that most truck stops sell and there are several different brands. Probably the main thing that the government has done to diesel fuel in the last 10 years is to take most of the sulfur out of it. I will shop for a top-tier gas if the price is competitive, but I wouldn't worry about the differences is diesel fuel as much.
Everything we run has a minimum of B2 due to lubrication for the old engines. Also when it gets cold use stanadyne or Howe lubricant as an additive or anti-gel. We've had too many problems with power service products not working in cold temps.
I didn't go past the first page, but this thread discusses use of biodiesel in the 320CDI. There are a few warnings on that first page not to use anything past B5.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211-e-class/1414951-anybody-running-biodiesel-their-e320-cdi.html
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211-e-class/1414951-anybody-running-biodiesel-their-e320-cdi.html
You can go to the dealer and get Mobil 1 Formula Mercedes ESP Formula for $9 /qt at any dealer. With the 10000 mile OCI, its not too pricey at all.
Originally Posted By: Audios
You can go to the dealer and get Mobil 1 Formula Mercedes ESP Formula for $9 /qt at any dealer. With the 10000 mile OCI, its not too pricey at all.
That's not too bad! Some on here mentioned that Pep Boys carries the same oil. When I looked it up, I saw $12.49/qt. -- and I figured the dealer would be worse. This Oil Change Kits website offers 9 quarts of that oil at 8.50/qt. plus the $11 filter, total about $88 (free shipping over $50): http://www.oilchangekits.com/automobiles/mercedes-benz/e320-bluetec-07-09-oil-change-kit.html For a once-a-year thing, especially if I can do it myself, that's not bad.
So, back on track: If I go to any top tier gas station that offers diesel, I should be okay, then?
You can go to the dealer and get Mobil 1 Formula Mercedes ESP Formula for $9 /qt at any dealer. With the 10000 mile OCI, its not too pricey at all.
That's not too bad! Some on here mentioned that Pep Boys carries the same oil. When I looked it up, I saw $12.49/qt. -- and I figured the dealer would be worse. This Oil Change Kits website offers 9 quarts of that oil at 8.50/qt. plus the $11 filter, total about $88 (free shipping over $50): http://www.oilchangekits.com/automobiles/mercedes-benz/e320-bluetec-07-09-oil-change-kit.html For a once-a-year thing, especially if I can do it myself, that's not bad.
So, back on track: If I go to any top tier gas station that offers diesel, I should be okay, then?
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
If I go to any top tier gas station that offers diesel, I should be okay, then?
I would try to go to truck stops or stations you see have plenty of diesels filling up there - any place with high turnover.
The diesel at Phillips 66 stations on the Oklahoma turnpike made my Golf smoke like a logging truck, yet they are a Top Tier gas retailer... so I would not use that as a way to determine diesel quality.
If I go to any top tier gas station that offers diesel, I should be okay, then?
I would try to go to truck stops or stations you see have plenty of diesels filling up there - any place with high turnover.
The diesel at Phillips 66 stations on the Oklahoma turnpike made my Golf smoke like a logging truck, yet they are a Top Tier gas retailer... so I would not use that as a way to determine diesel quality.
I can't speak for other areas of the country, but here in Reno all the diesel is the same, regardless of station. That is not true of the gasoline, as the various brand specific additives are added to the tanker.
Ed
Ed
Driving around this morning, I see every station that posts a diesel price has the exact same price, to the penny; so price won't affect where I fuel up. Now I'd like to continue going to the station where I've been buying my ethanol-free gas. However, his diesel pump says "Diesel # 1" on it. At the truck stop down the road, some of the diesel pumps have the sticker proclaiming it ULSD fuel, 15ppm of sulfur, approved for all passenger diesel vehicles; some don't.
What I'm getting at is, is Diesel #1 good to use in a modern MB Bluetec engine, or should I look for something labeled #2? Or is the stuff with the ULSD sticker good to go?
What I'm getting at is, is Diesel #1 good to use in a modern MB Bluetec engine, or should I look for something labeled #2? Or is the stuff with the ULSD sticker good to go?
Originally Posted By: scurvy
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
If I go to any top tier gas station that offers diesel, I should be okay, then?
I would try to go to truck stops or stations you see have plenty of diesels filling up there - any place with high turnover.
The diesel at Phillips 66 stations on the Oklahoma turnpike made my Golf smoke like a logging truck, yet they are a Top Tier gas retailer... so I would not use that as a way to determine diesel quality.
I know in my area there is a real problem with mixing transmix--the slug of pipeline material where the gas and the diesel meet with naptha and selling it as diesel. I don't know what the answer is, but I would be extremely paranoid about diesel fuel. My instinct would be to go to a proper truck stop, but I really don't know how you can be sure. I expect the place around the corner from the MB dealer would be OK too.
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
If I go to any top tier gas station that offers diesel, I should be okay, then?
I would try to go to truck stops or stations you see have plenty of diesels filling up there - any place with high turnover.
The diesel at Phillips 66 stations on the Oklahoma turnpike made my Golf smoke like a logging truck, yet they are a Top Tier gas retailer... so I would not use that as a way to determine diesel quality.
I know in my area there is a real problem with mixing transmix--the slug of pipeline material where the gas and the diesel meet with naptha and selling it as diesel. I don't know what the answer is, but I would be extremely paranoid about diesel fuel. My instinct would be to go to a proper truck stop, but I really don't know how you can be sure. I expect the place around the corner from the MB dealer would be OK too.
- Status
