Ethanol/E-85 question

[Silver_civic]

Hello again, and got kinda a interesting question. If a vehicle like the new or newer suburbans and other makes that say flex fuel on them, can you take that vehicle and put e-85 in it and will the vehicle run fine? My brother says yes. He says if it has the yellow gas cap you can use straight e-85 in the vehicle. I am curious about this myself as I think you would have to modify something on the vehicle/s to make it run ok.



thank you in advance,


adam vasbinder

 

[Hollow]

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/flextech.shtml

 

[umungus1122]

If the vehicle is flex fuel, and the owner's manual says you can use E85, than all you have to do is fill it up with the E85. The computer automatically adjusts for its use.

 

[Silver_civic]

I notice it says "except for a few engine and fuel system modifications". Interesting. It says you can run e85 in vehicles that say FLEX FUEL or are badged as such. Thanks for the link HollowEyes, as I saved it; great reading.

adam

 

[Silver_civic]

For a vechicle like my 03' civic I doubt I could use a fuel with 15% ethanol as its not a flex fuel vehicle as the civic isnt a flex fuel vehicle.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Is there anyone on this board that uses E85?

 

[CourierDriver]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Is there anyone on this board that uses E85?
I have run it in my 2002 dodge lead sled, 318 v8 ,,it will run, but the mpg goes way down, doesnt pay to use it on older rigs, but it will run ok,,just mpg goes down the tubes.

 

[Astro14]

First - E85 is 85% ethanol and the car has to be made to run on it...different fuel system plastics, computer that compensates, etc...

Next, Ethanol has about half of the BTU per gallon that gasoline does. So, yeah, fill 'er up for about the same price, watch your mileage go to about half (half the energy...).

What a great plan! where do I sign up for this program?

 

[Letter_K]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
First - E85 is 85% ethanol and the car has to be made to run on it...different fuel system plastics, computer that compensates, etc...

Next, Ethanol has about half of the BTU per gallon that gasoline does. So, yeah, fill 'er up for about the same price, watch your mileage go to about half (half the energy...).

What a great plan! where do I sign up for this program?


Yes, you are correct about upgraded rubber and plastic part and the computer compensation for the Ethanol.

50% loss, is way overboard. Those who use Ethanol in the Midwest know the real lose is about 25% - which, interesting enought is slightly less than where ethanol prices are compared to regular gas. (76k BTU for E85 vs 114k for regular gas, which hould be adjusted down for the 10% ethanol it contains.)

Most cars can get away running a few extra gallons of E85 mixed in with the regular E10 gas, but the benefit wouldn't be that big. Locally, there is a guy who calls himself something like Mr. Ethanol and he offers to buy people a gallon or two of E85 to mix in there tank.

 

[mechtech2]

The high ethanol content raises the octane and allows more ignition advance, and possible different cam timing.
This is why the projected and expected 50% loss is attenuated to a bit less than that.

 

[NateDN10]

In my Cobalt, which isn't flex fuel, I've put up to 3 gallons of E-85 mixed with regular (for a total of about 30% ethanol). Started and ran fine, and for me, reduction in mileage was barely above the normal variation I see between fill-ups - about 2mpg down from the average.

YMMV.

 

[PeteTheFarmer]

gasoline is approximately 125,000 BTUs per gallon, E85 119,500 for the high heating value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency#Energy_content_of_fuel

 

[rammo]

I use E-85 in my dodge ram and i lose around 17% in MPG when using E-85 but i gain more HP with E-85. The smell of E-85 seems less lethal than regualr unleaded gas.

 

[Letter_K]

Originally Posted By: PeteTheFarmer
gasoline is approximately 125,000 BTUs per gallon, E85 119,500 for the high heating value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency#Energy_content_of_fuel


Funny, Wikipedia was my source for BTUs per gallon and these figurues seem different than the ones you quoted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

I think anecdotally I've heard most says it is a 15%-20% loss of MPG, but it probably is YMMV. The crazy thing was years ago on the East Coast people were paying more than gas for E85.

I read in the paper two days ago that 44% of US corn production is used for Ethanol.

 

[PeteTheFarmer]

Originally Posted By: Letter_K
These figurues seem different than the ones you quoted.


It's the difference between the higher heating value and the lower heating value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_heating_value#Heating_value

The table I linked said in the US the high value is more often used, although the lower may be better for predicting the estimated mileage difference.

 

[Silver_civic]

Bottom Line here is this: NO E-85 GARBAGE FOR ME!

 

[mechtech2]

Concerning fuel use/power:
when jetting a carb or older mechanical fuel injection jet, you need about twice the area as gasoline. Many carbs can not be made to run alcohol, as the internal passages are the limiting factor.

LetterK's link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent
is what makes sense.
Maybe other info is fudged data to make ethanol use more appealing?

 

[PeteTheFarmer]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Maybe other info is fudged data to make ethanol use more appealing?


What's fudged data?