Hmmm, where you do get the Ultra for that price Ramble? It is about $9 at WM for my app.
erdict: What's the best filter?
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I was looking at the microgreen site and they recommend changing the filter every 10K miles, I have been using a Mobile 1 filter and thy claim it can go 15K. I am not sure I would ever change the filter but not the oil, but I might just try one of these MG filters since Amazon has them for $10.99.
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Hmmm, where you do get the Ultra for that price Ramble? It is about $9 at WM for my app.
You can buy a pack of 6 on ebay for between $38-20 for almost every application. You shouldn't ever pay more than $6 for an Ultra. @24k miles per filter, one case would last the average joe the whole life they own the car.
Hmmm, where you do get the Ultra for that price Ramble? It is about $9 at WM for my app.
You can buy a pack of 6 on ebay for between $38-20 for almost every application. You shouldn't ever pay more than $6 for an Ultra. @24k miles per filter, one case would last the average joe the whole life they own the car.
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
How is the microGreen any better than the Fram Ultra?
microGreen lists that the full-flow element removes between 25-40 microns, and the second-stage microfilter between 2-5 microns.
Fram Ultra is:
99% @ 20 microns
94% @ 10 microns
80% @ 5 microns (according to 901Memphis)
microGreen for my application is $12. Fram is $8.40. According to Motorking, their packaging will be updated this year to reflect longer change intervals (from 15k to 24k, IIRC).
10-20 micron material is what is doing the most damage over time.
You can buy MG's a lot cheaper than 12 on special in pairs.8-9 bucks. Equal to the FU.
As to why its better the fleet manager that put it on the saturn you bought could probably tell you why he used it - it extends the sump.
The 80% @ 5 microns - isn't apparently good enough to extend the sump 30K with 3 of them or they'd claim it.
UD
How is the microGreen any better than the Fram Ultra?
microGreen lists that the full-flow element removes between 25-40 microns, and the second-stage microfilter between 2-5 microns.
Fram Ultra is:
99% @ 20 microns
94% @ 10 microns
80% @ 5 microns (according to 901Memphis)
microGreen for my application is $12. Fram is $8.40. According to Motorking, their packaging will be updated this year to reflect longer change intervals (from 15k to 24k, IIRC).
10-20 micron material is what is doing the most damage over time.
You can buy MG's a lot cheaper than 12 on special in pairs.8-9 bucks. Equal to the FU.
As to why its better the fleet manager that put it on the saturn you bought could probably tell you why he used it - it extends the sump.
The 80% @ 5 microns - isn't apparently good enough to extend the sump 30K with 3 of them or they'd claim it.
UD
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Originally Posted By: UncleDave
The 80% @ 5 microns - isn't apparently good enough to extend the sump 30K with 3 of them or they'd claim it.
Actually, it would only take 2. My bet is running 2 FUs over 30K would give just as good a UOA on the same motor as 3 Microgreens over 30K miles.
The 80% @ 5 microns - isn't apparently good enough to extend the sump 30K with 3 of them or they'd claim it.
Actually, it would only take 2. My bet is running 2 FUs over 30K would give just as good a UOA on the same motor as 3 Microgreens over 30K miles.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
You or someone else here could always try it.
It would be interesting to see the test, but it would probably take me 6 years to perform it. Sounds like a taxi cab would be a good test bed, or someone who drives 30K+ miles a year.
You or someone else here could always try it.
It would be interesting to see the test, but it would probably take me 6 years to perform it. Sounds like a taxi cab would be a good test bed, or someone who drives 30K+ miles a year.
It would take running both filters (in multiple instances) in test engines under identical conditions. One poster here running only one filter is meaningless. What do you compare it to?
Originally Posted By: kschachn
It would take running both filters (in multiple instances) in test engines under identical conditions. One poster here running only one filter is meaningless. What do you compare it to?
One data "set" we have is not meaningless as its contains three separate tests each at 10K.
ALL posted here.
Its one instance of proof. No one has refuted its claim with DATA showing it doesn't work.
UD
It would take running both filters (in multiple instances) in test engines under identical conditions. One poster here running only one filter is meaningless. What do you compare it to?
One data "set" we have is not meaningless as its contains three separate tests each at 10K.
ALL posted here.
Its one instance of proof. No one has refuted its claim with DATA showing it doesn't work.
UD
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
I guess I am the only one who is skeptical about the 80% @ 5 microns number. That would be something to advertise on a website.
You are not.
I'm not skeptical it could possibly do that after being loaded to some degree.
I'm skeptical thats repeatable and consistent.
UD
I guess I am the only one who is skeptical about the 80% @ 5 microns number. That would be something to advertise on a website.
You are not.
I'm not skeptical it could possibly do that after being loaded to some degree.
I'm skeptical thats repeatable and consistent.
UD
As is with the case of fuel economy claims often posted to BITOG, being able to measure something is one thing but being able to attribute it to a specific variable is quite another. Just seeing good TBN retention is fine but without a control you don't know why it happened. How do you know it wouldn't have happened with another filter or even no filter at all?
Originally Posted By: kschachn
As is with the case of fuel economy claims often posted to BITOG, being able to measure something is one thing but being able to attribute it to a specific variable is quite another. Just seeing good TBN retention is fine but without a control you don't know why it happened. How do you know it wouldn't have happened with another filter or even no filter at all?
I always wondered if Penzoil would show us the data on their economy improvement claim for PP.
As it is they say Iirc 4% " over a dirty engine" whatever that means.
We can go look at identically engined autos in the Mazda forums and see nothing like DBmasters results using a variety of standard off the shelf filter and identical oil.
Ramblejam wouldn't a filter thats 99% at 5 with a beta going down to 2 - be more like 100% from 5 and up?
That would put the combined MG range at 99% from 5-X and some beta rate from 5 down to 2.
It would effectively scrub 100% of all particle in the 10-20 range, albeit not in one pass as the microdisk is only 1-3% of total flow.
UD
As is with the case of fuel economy claims often posted to BITOG, being able to measure something is one thing but being able to attribute it to a specific variable is quite another. Just seeing good TBN retention is fine but without a control you don't know why it happened. How do you know it wouldn't have happened with another filter or even no filter at all?
I always wondered if Penzoil would show us the data on their economy improvement claim for PP.
As it is they say Iirc 4% " over a dirty engine" whatever that means.
We can go look at identically engined autos in the Mazda forums and see nothing like DBmasters results using a variety of standard off the shelf filter and identical oil.
Ramblejam wouldn't a filter thats 99% at 5 with a beta going down to 2 - be more like 100% from 5 and up?
That would put the combined MG range at 99% from 5-X and some beta rate from 5 down to 2.
It would effectively scrub 100% of all particle in the 10-20 range, albeit not in one pass as the microdisk is only 1-3% of total flow.
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
You can buy MG's a lot cheaper than 12 on special in pairs.8-9 bucks. Equal to the FU.
As to why its better the fleet manager that put it on the saturn you bought could probably tell you why he used it - it extends the sump.
The 80% @ 5 microns - isn't apparently good enough to extend the sump 30K with 3 of them or they'd claim it.
1. The price comparison was apples-to-apples (purchasing one at a time on Amazon). I can buy a six-pack of XG3600 on Ebay for $28, which brings the Fram Ultra down to $4.67/filter.
2. It "extends the sump" when you follow their directions; microGreen is changed every 10k miles.
3. One Fram Ultra is good enough though for 24k. The microGreen is good for 10k.
You can buy MG's a lot cheaper than 12 on special in pairs.8-9 bucks. Equal to the FU.
As to why its better the fleet manager that put it on the saturn you bought could probably tell you why he used it - it extends the sump.
The 80% @ 5 microns - isn't apparently good enough to extend the sump 30K with 3 of them or they'd claim it.
1. The price comparison was apples-to-apples (purchasing one at a time on Amazon). I can buy a six-pack of XG3600 on Ebay for $28, which brings the Fram Ultra down to $4.67/filter.
2. It "extends the sump" when you follow their directions; microGreen is changed every 10k miles.
3. One Fram Ultra is good enough though for 24k. The microGreen is good for 10k.
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
You can buy MG's a lot cheaper than 12 on special in pairs.8-9 bucks. Equal to the FU.
As to why its better the fleet manager that put it on the saturn you bought could probably tell you why he used it - it extends the sump.
The 80% @ 5 microns - isn't apparently good enough to extend the sump 30K with 3 of them or they'd claim it.
1. The price comparison was apples-to-apples (purchasing one at a time on Amazon). I can buy a six-pack of XG3600 on Ebay for $28, which brings the Fram Ultra down to $4.67/filter.
2. It "extends the sump" when you follow their directions; microGreen is changed every 10k miles.
3. One Fram Ultra is good enough though for 24k. The microGreen is good for 10k.
4.67 is good price and less than one can get a MG for- if you trust the source. I for one do not rely on eBay.
One fram ultra is not yet good for 24K - and although Fram also says that it "will be" they also say not to currently run it past 15K (Jays words)
filter claimed life is only one part of the equation -
They make no promise about the suitability of the sump to that life - and specify the manufacturers recommended interval.
The MG value proposition is the sump retainment for 30K over 3 filters - and they dont specify synthetic oil is needed to get that.
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
You can buy MG's a lot cheaper than 12 on special in pairs.8-9 bucks. Equal to the FU.
As to why its better the fleet manager that put it on the saturn you bought could probably tell you why he used it - it extends the sump.
The 80% @ 5 microns - isn't apparently good enough to extend the sump 30K with 3 of them or they'd claim it.
1. The price comparison was apples-to-apples (purchasing one at a time on Amazon). I can buy a six-pack of XG3600 on Ebay for $28, which brings the Fram Ultra down to $4.67/filter.
2. It "extends the sump" when you follow their directions; microGreen is changed every 10k miles.
3. One Fram Ultra is good enough though for 24k. The microGreen is good for 10k.
4.67 is good price and less than one can get a MG for- if you trust the source. I for one do not rely on eBay.
One fram ultra is not yet good for 24K - and although Fram also says that it "will be" they also say not to currently run it past 15K (Jays words)
filter claimed life is only one part of the equation -
They make no promise about the suitability of the sump to that life - and specify the manufacturers recommended interval.
The MG value proposition is the sump retainment for 30K over 3 filters - and they dont specify synthetic oil is needed to get that.
UD
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Originally Posted By: GRWOil
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Hmmm, where you do get the Ultra for that price Ramble? It is about $9 at WM for my app.
You can buy a pack of 6 on ebay for between $38-20 for almost every application. You shouldn't ever pay more than $6 for an Ultra. @24k miles per filter, one case would last the average joe the whole life they own the car.
(I'm being completely amoral here
If you're lucky buying a $6 Ultra, it's that cheap because it's stolen. If you're not lucky, it's because it is counterfeit. I'd be leery that such cheap Ultras weren't the real deal. If you do get a bunch of Fram Ultras from eBay, it might be a good idea to buy one from a place you trust, and compare it with your eBay filters.
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Hmmm, where you do get the Ultra for that price Ramble? It is about $9 at WM for my app.
You can buy a pack of 6 on ebay for between $38-20 for almost every application. You shouldn't ever pay more than $6 for an Ultra. @24k miles per filter, one case would last the average joe the whole life they own the car.
(I'm being completely amoral here
If you're lucky buying a $6 Ultra, it's that cheap because it's stolen. If you're not lucky, it's because it is counterfeit. I'd be leery that such cheap Ultras weren't the real deal. If you do get a bunch of Fram Ultras from eBay, it might be a good idea to buy one from a place you trust, and compare it with your eBay filters.Originally Posted By: kohnen
Originally Posted By: GRWOil
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Hmmm, where you do get the Ultra for that price Ramble? It is about $9 at WM for my app.
You can buy a pack of 6 on ebay for between $38-20 for almost every application. You shouldn't ever pay more than $6 for an Ultra. @24k miles per filter, one case would last the average joe the whole life they own the car.
(I'm being completely amoral here If you're lucky buying a $6 Ultra, it's that cheap because it's stolen. If you're not lucky, it's because it is counterfeit. I'd be leery that such cheap Ultras weren't the real deal. If you do get a bunch of Fram Ultras from eBay, it might be a good idea to buy one from a place you trust, and compare it with your eBay filters.
I understand the caution. Getting any product for 1/2 the market price can be suspicious. Though, I question why people can buy oil for 1/3 of the retail price and not bat an eye, whereas it's much harder to make a counterfeit filter . . . oil looks the same.
I firmly believe that the ultras I've bought off ebay are legitimate and not stolen. First, you are buying a case of 6 ultras to get that price, so you save a bit of the retail markup with the bulk purchase. Second, of the filters I've bought, they appear to be older stock (I check the date codes). Usually between 1-3 years older than the date of purchase, which likely means Fram requires retailers to move the filters after a certain period of time so Walmart sells them off to ebay wholesalers. There is no way that there is this quantity and variety of Fram ultras on ebay if they are stolen. Between 3 or 4 different wholesalers there is a competitive market for the case of 6 across every model I've ever looked up. The filters I've bought have held up to the comparisons test. I cut open a virgin XG3890 (gave $3.33 per filter) and it looked the exact same as the virgin XGs I've seen here. Fram Ultras have no known counterfeit unlike Hyundai OEM or other filters.
There is just no reason to think these filters are shady. Rest assured, you can get your hands on a box of ultras for $5 a filter.
Originally Posted By: GRWOil
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Hmmm, where you do get the Ultra for that price Ramble? It is about $9 at WM for my app.
You can buy a pack of 6 on ebay for between $38-20 for almost every application. You shouldn't ever pay more than $6 for an Ultra. @24k miles per filter, one case would last the average joe the whole life they own the car.
(I'm being completely amoral here
If you're lucky buying a $6 Ultra, it's that cheap because it's stolen. If you're not lucky, it's because it is counterfeit. I'd be leery that such cheap Ultras weren't the real deal. If you do get a bunch of Fram Ultras from eBay, it might be a good idea to buy one from a place you trust, and compare it with your eBay filters.I understand the caution. Getting any product for 1/2 the market price can be suspicious. Though, I question why people can buy oil for 1/3 of the retail price and not bat an eye, whereas it's much harder to make a counterfeit filter . . . oil looks the same.
I firmly believe that the ultras I've bought off ebay are legitimate and not stolen. First, you are buying a case of 6 ultras to get that price, so you save a bit of the retail markup with the bulk purchase. Second, of the filters I've bought, they appear to be older stock (I check the date codes). Usually between 1-3 years older than the date of purchase, which likely means Fram requires retailers to move the filters after a certain period of time so Walmart sells them off to ebay wholesalers. There is no way that there is this quantity and variety of Fram ultras on ebay if they are stolen. Between 3 or 4 different wholesalers there is a competitive market for the case of 6 across every model I've ever looked up. The filters I've bought have held up to the comparisons test. I cut open a virgin XG3890 (gave $3.33 per filter) and it looked the exact same as the virgin XGs I've seen here. Fram Ultras have no known counterfeit unlike Hyundai OEM or other filters.
There is just no reason to think these filters are shady. Rest assured, you can get your hands on a box of ultras for $5 a filter.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...rol#Post4322964
Ebay purchase - 2012 stock.
Walmart and Amazon is as far down the food chain Im willing to go...
UD
Ebay purchase - 2012 stock.
Walmart and Amazon is as far down the food chain Im willing to go...
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...rol#Post4322964
Ebay purchase - 2012 stock.
Walmart and Amazon is as far down the food chain Im willing to go...
UD
Eh, that guy had a sealed box! He was the first one to open that filter. I bet the probability of that happening is just as high at Walmart as it is on ebay. I open all of the filters I order and I've never found something like that.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...rol#Post4322964
Ebay purchase - 2012 stock.
Walmart and Amazon is as far down the food chain Im willing to go...
UD
Eh, that guy had a sealed box! He was the first one to open that filter. I bet the probability of that happening is just as high at Walmart as it is on ebay. I open all of the filters I order and I've never found something like that.
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