English Electric locomotive oil- help!!!

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I am trying to find a listing (or a link) to ascertain what grade/spec. oil is used in English Electric locomotive engines. I am not being lazy and simply asking for someone else to do it- I have searched and emailed various companies and forums to no avail. Help......anyone? Regards Wes
 
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English Electric locomotives? I would take a stab at SAE20 oil made for electric motors. To my recollection it exists out there and is manufactured by a few companies. But somehow I doubt anyone on this forum has experience with electric train maintenance, except the tiny HO scale ones, lol... I'm at a loss. You'll probably have to find some museum that deals with them to see if you can get advice. Edit: I've come to realize these English Electric locomotives are actually frequently diesel-electric locomotives, not pure electric. The main oil requirement is for an extremely large diesel engine connected for power generation. Again I'd contact a museum or something but I'd bank most diesel engines could run fine on quality diesel oriented oils.
 
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ELWes

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Hey RiceCake, thanks for the quick reply, but these are heavy duty diesel engines built by English Electric. They also made planes and Jet engines. Genereal Electric in the USA also makes diesel locomotive engines sometimes leading to the same confusion amongst bystanders...lol Wes
 
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My best advice would be to find somewhere that deals with them specifically, which could be museums if its truly older equipment. If however you want some type of advice regardless, I'd be looking into what other large engine industries are using (such as Caterpillar in heavy machinery engines). Caterpillar's factory fill is typically SAE 15W-40 diesel rated engine oils, so I wouldn't doubt for a diesel locomotive, this is at least on the right track for what you're looking for. Cummins also manufactures heavy equipment engines, including modern diesel electric locomotives, and the requirements are vastly the same. 15W-40 oil rated for diesel use (CH-4 oils or better).
 
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^ Probably exactly what you're looking for in every possible way. Funny how low it is in ZDDP. Some people would be calling that oil terrible by that yardstick, lol.
 
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OVERKILL

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I'd give Mobil a call, but they likely make a lubricant for this application. smile And it may be the one I linked above.
 
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Originally Posted By: RiceCake
^ Probably exactly what you're looking for in every possible way. Funny how low it is in ZDDP. Some people would be calling that oil terrible by that yardstick, lol.
zddp damage the silver bearingss?
 
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Quote:
DIOL RD Series products incorporate additive technology designed for LMOA Generation 5 performance. They also meet the requirements of GE Generation 4 Long Life specification and are posted on the Internal Listings of GE and EMD. Furthermore, DIOL RD Series products are zinc free, low chlorine, and non-corrosive to silver bearings and other engine metals.
So, zinc and chlorine might have something to do with that.
 
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Originally Posted By: Chris142
I read somewhere that those had silver bearings and could not use regular oils as those would damage the silver bearings. Sae 40 iirc
I too have heard about bearings being made of silver.why would they need to be made of this,instead of regular bearing matl?
 
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Originally Posted By: daves66nova
Originally Posted By: Chris142
I read somewhere that those had silver bearings and could not use regular oils as those would damage the silver bearings. Sae 40 iirc
I too have heard about bearings being made of silver.why would they need to be made of this,instead of regular bearing matl?
According to this, it makes for a better perfroming bearing. http://www.silverinstitute.org/site/silver-in-industry/bearings/
 
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Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
^ Probably exactly what you're looking for in every possible way. Funny how low it is in ZDDP. Some people would be calling that oil terrible by that yardstick, lol.
zddp damage the silver bearingss?
Multiple different white metal formulations have been used, and many of them don't contain lead, they contain a lot of silver, and often copper (cow of a metal to dissolve in a white metal blend)...early lead based bearings had high impregnation (particles could jam into the metals, keeping them within the hydrodynamic film, and away from rotating components, and was a desirable feature)...however, as projected bearing loads rose (load on bearing area), the lead based stuff deformed under the hydrostatic, and hydrodynamic pressures, and they made the materials stiffer/stronger by less lead, and more antimony, zilver, copper etc. However, zinc messes with either silver plated stuff, or silver bearing alloys, and leads to the bearing metal breaking up (crumbling, as alloys harden with varying concentrations of metals in the early forming dendrites, versus the stuff that's left to harden at the grain boundaries). Something we have to be careful of in industry, as even purely hydrostatic bearings that don't need a lot of FM characteristics, the amount of zinc in a typical hydraulic oil can cause failure after a few 10s of thousands of hours. (Using STP as a maintenance lube on turbine bearings is bad news, and was once common practice (Lucas is better, being add free)). to the OP, you won't find any "HO" 20 weights in the application that you are after, most of these are straight 30s, 40s, and 50s, as cold starts aren't activities that occur regularly in these engines in their original applications...and in museums, they aren't that cold, nor do they see serious loads. You are going likely to only find straight 40s, like Delo 6170CFO or BP (note the 20W-40 available). http://www.bp.com/business/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9038524&contentId=7070712
 
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EMD locomotive engines use silver bearings so engine oils for them cannot contain ZDDP. Johnny from Wisconsin on this website told me about this a while ago.
 
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Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Quote:
DIOL RD Series products incorporate additive technology designed for LMOA Generation 5 performance. They also meet the requirements of GE Generation 4 Long Life specification and are posted on the Internal Listings of GE and EMD. Furthermore, DIOL RD Series products are zinc free, low chlorine, and non-corrosive to silver bearings and other engine metals.
So, zinc and chlorine might have something to do with that.
The chlorine is used as AW/EP in these bearings. "Low" is probably there for the enviro-wennies....
 
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Norfolk Southern uses a 20w-40 lube oil. the oil contains no zinc because of the silver bearings inside of the turbochargers. the engines themselves have regular bearings. we do have some gen-set units that have smaller deutz engines in them. we put rotella 15w-40 in those.
 
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here is an idea, this is just a guess. a long long time ago the crankshaft couldnt be made as hard as we can now. as in back then a lot of parts wasnt made like we do now days. JUST AN IDEA.
 
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