Engineering shortages in the Power Industry.

[Shannow]

Got my copy of the Electricity Association News (Australian), and it had this.

quote:

---

US officials say a shortage of qualified workers in the power generation industry is
likely to worsen in the next five years. Bureau of Labour Statistics projections indicate that by
2012, there will be about 10,000 more power industry jobs than workers. Only about 60,000
engineers graduate in the US per year and policymakers say the key is to interest school
students in technical careers as well as find new ways to retain experienced staff.

---

We're finding exactly the same issues in the Oz power industry.

So if you've got any sons/daughters/nieces/nephews getting towards the end of highschool, try to shove them into engineering.

Please.

 

[pitzel]

In North America, a huge part of the problem in the electric power industry is that they have been paying engineering professionals significantly below-average wages.

Remember that engineers are just as intelligent as doctors and lawyers, yet usually end up being paid half as much.

There is no labour shortage. Just a shortage of appropriate compensation for individuals who chose to enter the engineering profession in roles in electric power plants.

Shannow, you have to always be skeptical of articles such as that. They are usually influenced by business owners who feel that engineers should not be achieving an appropriate return on their investment in ambition and education like lawyers, doctors and pharmacists are. It is appalling, and quite frankly, dishonest to suggest there is any shortage of engineering talent available to the electric power industry.

 

[Shannow]

pitzel,
our national treasurer (conservative) was on TV a few months ago, and was discussing engineering shortages.

When the interview came around to "market forces" and that they would increase the value of engineers, he responded with "Increased wages for engieers would not be in the interests of business. We (the Government) will do everything in our power to prevent this."

We've had two of my equivalent positions (out of 6) vacant for over 2 years, basically due to not even offering what the market is offering.

BTW, recent regulatory changes have meant that I can go to jail if I make a mistake.

Should have become a doctor.

 

[Al]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pitzel:
In North America, a huge part of the problem in the electric power industry is that they have been paying engineering professionals significantly below-average wages.

Remember that engineers are just as intelligent as doctors and lawyers, yet usually end up being paid half as much.

There is no labour shortage. Just a shortage of appropriate compensation for individuals who chose to enter the engineering profession in roles in electric power plants.

Shannow, you have to always be skeptical of articles such as that. They are usually influenced by business owners who feel that engineers should not be achieving an appropriate return on their investment in ambition and education like lawyers, doctors and pharmacists are. It is appalling, and quite frankly, dishonest to suggest there is any shortage of engineering talent available to the electric power industry.

---

I agree completely. I was an engineer in the Power Generation for 33 years. [rant] When deregulation hit..the crap started hitting the fan. Reliability went down, number of positions went down, equipment was not replaced. Of course consolidation occurred and with it more layoffs. Add to that that a major coal or nuclear facility has'nt been built in 25 years. Gas and old fired units are now killing our energy supplies as we sit on mega-mountains of coal and refuse to go nuclear. The Perfect Storm for future disaster. Oh well ..[/rant]..Shortage of Engineering???=not.

 

[kenw]

Well, I certainly hope the engineering schools in Oz are doing a better job than those in the states. BTW, the engineering shortage statistic can be cloned for just about every industry.

The wailing and gnashing of teeth is a common ploy to allow additional foreign engineers in on work permits. There's not a severe shortage of engineers, it's a severe shortage of engineers willing to work for half of the going rate.

While so-called shortages of engineers are rampant, the idiots in charge of the asylums make engineering schools harder to get into, less useful in the real world and insist on course work that is obsolete and irrelevant.

I see engineers come out of school that are pretty sharp math-wise but have the common sense of a rock and all of the people skills of an entire bucket of rocks.

Instead of making well-rounded engineers that can be versatile and useful 20-30-40 years down the road, engineers that can actually stand in front of a large group and SELL an idea, understanding the economics of their actions, know how thing is are made in a factory and then make it happen with some real planning; we cram them full of minutia that any old DOS 8086 CPU will be doing in the real world and stretch their sentence to 5 years of listening to grad students from 4th world countries work off their debt in a language that no one understands.

With 30 years under my belt as an engineer, the only way I've survived is by being flexible. The engineering schools today are teaching everything BUT flexibility. Neither of my sons wanted engineering, although each could have done well at it once they got past the idiots teaching it.

(rant over now)

 

[keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pitzel:
In North America, a huge part of the problem in the electric power industry is that they have been paying engineering professionals significantly below-average wages.

---

The system is working. The most intelligent students are choosing majors that lead to well renumerated professions. Engineering employers will continue to wonder why there are shortages, and run to Washington DC to demand more immigrant visas, and drive down their costs further ensuring fewer and fewer US graduates will choose engineering. It's a vicious cycle, fueled by our friends in Washington DC who are hooked on cheap immigrant labor.

My oldest child really likes science but I will do everything in my power to steer the kid to a different career path than engineering. It's a very bad choice for smart kids.

 

[VNT]

Why become an engineer? Where I used to work, major manufacturer of lighting products, had 3 accountants tracking my programs for cost savings? The accountants added no value in my opionion, and made as much money as I did. Of course I was putting in 10-11 hr days while they waltzed out the door at 3:30.

Now I work for the local Utility in S/S maintenance. What a wake up. A company which actually maintains it's assetts, and strives for reliability and treats people decently.

But I agree, if someone asked me, I would not go into Engineering, or manufacturing again if I had to do it over. In the US the manufacturing is going down the tubes and with it the Engineering Profession. I worked in R&D and have 3 patents in the lighting field, and near the end, marketing bozos, and accountants called the shots. They had very unreasonable deadlines and cost targets and thought we could "Invent" things on a timetable.
When things got lean, no one in Accounting, IT, Marketing ever got canned, only the R&D, Equipment Development, Manufacturing got nailed. Cut your nose to spite your face I guess. Basically, you dont need Engineers if you dont design and manufacture things. So why not go to school and become an Accountant and call the shots, if the place folds you will be the last out the door with the best severance package.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by pitzel:
There is no labour shortage.

---

labour shortage: "I have to pay my employees too much money"

Get it?

 

[rjundi]

I disagree on engineering especially Computer Science. The enrollment is extremely down in this major currently and filling these jobs requiring this background will become very difficult in the US soon. My employer (massive in this industry) is pushing with high schoolers about this profession. People always state that outsourcing is happening etc, but they need people to fill these jobs on our shores even with outsourcing. Someone with a technical background needs to communicate and understand the needs here to have the outsourced work done over "there".

With regards to pay, what importance is that if there is no personal passion or love for the job if it at least provides a living wage.

 

[OMCWankel]

I agree with Kenw

I also have almost 30 years in the engineering field. Being flexable, and not protesting the lack of compensation, is the key to longevity. I do very little design engineering now, mostly regulatory paperwork and production parts crosses.

I would not advise any young person to enter into engineering. Other countries, like India, are doing a better job of marketing engineers, at a lower cost. Engineering compensation in the USA will NOT get better, making other careers a better choice.

Like VNT said "become an Accountant and call the shots, if the place folds you will be the last out the door with the best severance package"

 

[labman]

My son in law graduated a year ago with a degree in Computer Science. Still hasn't found a job in his field. He is restricting his search to near the city where my daughter is an engineer with the city. If we want to excel technically, we need to take better care of technical people.

 

[wander2039]

Thats somewhat reassuring, I'm going back to get a engineering degree since my computer degree didn't get me a job even in technical support. On a side note the computer field is coming back but i've been out of the field to long and besides my dislike of computers is beyond words. Alot of the good engineers are trained in technical, political aspects (few others) so there zapped up by other career fields, remember a few presidents were engineers, so that won't help any.

 

[Al]

quote:

---

Originally posted by keith:
The system is working. The most intelligent students are choosing majors that lead to well renumerated professions. Engineering employers will continue to wonder why there are shortages, and run to Washington DC to demand more immigrant visas, and drive down their costs further ensuring fewer and fewer US graduates will choose engineering. It's a vicious cycle, fueled by our friends in Washington DC who are hooked on cheap immigrant labor.


My oldest child really likes science but I will do everything in my power to steer the kid to a different career path than engineering. It's a very bad choice for smart kids.

---

I guess I'll disagree with the popular sentiment here. I do have to say that I retired 4 1/2 years ago as an engineer and my experience may be somewhat outdated. I believe that a good engineering school continues to teach their engineers to solve problems. And if you can get through, you will be assured that you are smart enough to make your way in this world and have developed a huge problem solving mentality. Engineers are trained to think. Don't overlook or underestimate that simple truth. I would recommend Engineering school to anyone.

I completely agree that foreign students are continuing to take positions in our universities that home grown talent should be filling. I blame part of this on our continuing pandering to legal and illegal immigration. The other problem though is that government schools have lost their way in teaching kids science and math-very, very sad

.


G0D willing, I'm going to help prepare my grandkids in science/math as much as I am able and if all goes well help put them through engineering school if they are so inclined.

 

[DKT]

Al,
I agree with you. I got my engineering degree nearly 30 years ago, got registered at one point, and now don't do any engineering (moved to a managerial slot). We have a son that is going to be a HS senior next year and I'm steering him toward engineering (he's good at math and science). I don't know where this will lead him, but he will get a quality education that will make him work hard and think. Who knows, maybe he'll get a minor in accounting, and then he'd be the last one out that will know how to turn off the lights!

 

[OMCWankel]

quote:

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Originally posted by DKT:
Who knows, maybe he'll get a minor in accounting, and then he'd be the last one out that will know how to turn off the lights!

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Good line, DKT

That may be the answer. The best company president I ever worked for had an engineering degree. The other executives and managers could not bull**** him on engineering/production issues