Engine Wear Study - Included Oil Filtration

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Before the type of PCV intake seen in Trav's old Buick photo, the first (1960s) cars with PCV pulled their make-up air through a "breather" oil filler cap consisting of oily mesh---same as were used earlier with draft tubes.

My '81 Mazda used a set-up much like that Buick, but I kept its foam PCV intake filter well-oiled. It must not have let through enough "rocks" to affect the engine life by much.
 
Originally Posted by Powerglide
My EFI '76 Datsun 280z has a closed system without a breather.
By that I assume you mean blowby gasses from the crankcase were somehow allowed to enter the intake manifold, but there was no provision for fresh air to be drawn into the crankcase. True? That's what my '72 Subaru had, and my brother's '74 VW Dasher too---as well as a lot of lawn mower engines. That kind of setup pollutes the oil worse than a true PCV system.
 
Originally Posted by CR94
Before the type of PCV intake seen in Trav's old Buick photo, the first (1960s) cars with PCV pulled their make-up air through a "breather" oil filler cap consisting of oily mesh---same as were used earlier with draft tubes.

My '81 Mazda used a set-up much like that Buick, but I kept its foam PCV intake filter well-oiled. It must not have let through enough "rocks" to affect the engine life by much.


Oiled foam is a lot better than the dry media they used on a lot of engines. OPE engines used oiled foam air filters for years and they worked pretty good.
 
Oiled foam is a lot better than the dry media they used on a lot of engines. OPE engines used oiled foam air filters for years and they worked pretty good.[/quote]

Honestly they were fine on my old Briggs. Most of the dirt stayed in the outside 25% or so.
Of course OEM's started to follow the HP printer model … make money from expendables.
(and folks probably washed them but did not oil them).
 
Originally Posted by CR94
Before the type of PCV intake seen in Trav's old Buick photo, the first (1960s) cars with PCV pulled their make-up air through a "breather" oil filler cap consisting of oily mesh---same as were used earlier with draft tubes.

My '81 Mazda used a set-up much like that Buick, but I kept its foam PCV intake filter well-oiled. It must not have let through enough "rocks" to affect the engine life by much.


Yeah, my 76 350 has probably well over 300k miles, my Caprice has 240k, my old 89 tbi Caprice had the same pre air filter crankcase filter and it was still running good at 335k miles, the million mile 91 Chevy truck with a 350 TBI, and many others I've seen. I'm sure it's not as good and now that I'm actually thinking about it I will try to improve the system, but it clearly wasn't a detriment to engine longevity in a well maintained engine. I can't count the number of those crankcase filters I've replaced in my 20 years of driving. The problem would be in a vehicle that's not maintained well and nobody ever replaced it.
 
Its all about maintenance, depending on the oil filter to catch the crap once its in the engine isn't a substitute for maintaining other parts.
 
Nobody is claiming the oil filter is the sole savior to reduce engine wear and longevity. But it's part of the maintenance trifecta equation.
 
People down play the job of an oil filter when it's proven that more efficient oil filters keep oil cleaner (as every study shows), and therefore also do help reduce engine wear. True that the oil filter isn't as important as the air filter, but IMO it's still important especially as OCIs keep getting longer by car manufactures. If someone always changes the oil at 3000 miles, then the oil filter won't matter as much as if the oil was changed at 10K or 15K.
 
Here is one opportunity I wonder about. Several folks are connecting chain wear to longer oil runs. Is that a fine solids problem where stuff below 25 um causes wear ?
If so, seems a bypass filter system would be worth the small relative investment
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
People down play the job of an oil filter when it's proven that more efficient oil filters keep oil cleaner (as every study shows), and therefore also do help reduce engine wear. True that the oil filter isn't as important as the air filter, but IMO it's still important especially as OCIs keep getting longer by car manufactures. If someone always changes the oil at 3000 miles, then the oil filter won't matter as much as if the oil was changed at 10K or 15K.


That seems reasonable, I wouldn't even consider going that far on an OCI but for those that do it possibly has some benefit. IMO there is nothing wrong with using premium filters of any kind and high spec oils.
 
There are studies more relevant than this one due to time and technology. That's a 29 year old study. The Donaldson "total filtration" study is a tad newer, but comes to similar conclusions. More filtration is better.

The underlying question is "how much filtration is enough for normal use and how long do you need the equipment to last?"

Most any car made in the last two decades can EASILY run 250k miles with nothing special in terms of lubes or filters. Sealed systems along with much cleaner combustion make for far less contamination ingested and generated internally. There are of examples of vehicles running over 1 million miles with just normal oils and filters. Plenty of examples where cars go past 400k miles on normal filters. Routine maintenance shares the burden of the load of this. Also operating environment plays a big role; how dusty is it where you drive? Etc etc etc ...

Many of the older studies use a baseline established at 98% at 40um, or 50um, etc. The issue is that such a low baseline gives a very low standard to pass, and so any improvement seems massive. But today we can walk into any WM and get a decent filter that's 90% or 95% or greater at 20um. As Zee said, a filter that's 98% at 20um is probably 50% at 5um -7um. That means we can get regular over-the-counter filters which are far better than much of the "baseline" filters used in these older studies. So you're not going to see a huge reduction in wear as those older studies would suggest because you're already operating under conditions which are far, far better than decades ago.

There is no study I know of that anyone has brought forward which addresses lube filtration as a matter of a practical limit needed. Cleaner running engines, better quality lubes, much better "normal" filters all make this kind of a moot point. The normal variation of daily wear exceeds the ability to discern minor nuances in filtration. No one has a filter study done that proves I am wrong. Show me a study done in the last 5 years which uses current engines, lubes and filters, and then proves a real-world conclusion to be valid (not a HALT condition). I am not saying filters are worthless; that's not true. I'm saying that lube filters have a diminished role relative to overall wear control because air filtration and lube capability have improved so greatly they've put lube filters into the back seat. Once a lube filter is "good enough" it's not really a major player any longer. It helps, but it does not control. Lube filtration past a decent point (say 80% at 20um) is not the controlling variable as much as the other things. Show me a relevant study done recently using the current products available in real world use and then I'll pay attention.
 
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I use M1 oil and Fram Ultra. Oil goes 7500 miles in the Accent and 5k on the Gen Coupe. The filters stay in for two changes. The Accent has over 178k miles and burns less oil now than it ever did. My Gen Coupe I put a new timing chain in and it was so clean it looked brand new at 100k miles.

Disclaimer: Hyundai's OE timing chain is under sized for the BK1 Gen Coupe and it's higher rpm.
 
Is it just 'marketing' that claims engines burn cleaner and generate fewer contaminants internally, or are there studies from the past 5 years that prove this using current tech and reasonable assumptions?
 
I personally don't see black, gasoline-laden engine oil that much any more (from the days of carburetors), nor do I see the massive sludge buildup that seemed a lot more common on older engines years ago (broken down VIIs?) on engines that are able to run 9-10K on even synthetic blend oils, much less quality synthetics. I would say we've come a long way, even as we BITOGers examine everything with microscopic intensity.
 
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
I personally don't see black, gasoline-laden engine oil that much any more (from the days of carburetors), nor do I see the massive sludge buildup that seemed a lot more common on older engines years ago (broken down VIIs?) on engines that are able to run 9-10K on even synthetic blend oils, much less quality synthetics. I would say we've come a long way, even as we BITOGers examine everything with microscopic intensity.


I see black gasoline laden oil every time I check the oil on my girlfriend's 2013 Sonata. I last worked in the Pennzoil quick lube in 2012/2013 when they were just coming out so I didn't notice at that point but I'm told from the guy who works there in my place that all the Gdi Hyundai and kias seem to have black oil.

Both my carbureted cars keep their oil basically as clean as anything else. I've only seen black oil on my parts vehicles that had broken chokes, or other problems. If you have a fuel injected vehicle with a bad coolant temperature sensor that's flooding itself the oil will start looking bad just the same as a carbureted one. Seems like the carb always takes the blame for people not fixing their stuff.
 
My Hyundai Gen Coupe Turbo has black oil. And quickly but I think that's because there is over 1/2 qt left int he innards when you do a oil change and it will go pretty rich at times. I go 5k miles and start to get fuel dilution too. The Fram Ultra seems to keep it cleaner that the OE. But I keep it on for two changes.
 
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Lube turning black in a combustion engine after 10k miles is nothing but an indication that the lube is doing it's job suspending the soot and other insolubles in the lube rather than allowing deposits (sludge) to occur.

Further, the magnitude of discoloration really is difficult to quantify; it's subjective. How black is "black" oil? The color does not tell you how large the soot particles are, and that's BY FAR the most crucial thing to know. Are the anti-agglomerates working as they should; is the soot staying smaller than 5um? If so then it's not a big deal anyway. Soot starts out generally around 40nm in size (nanometers). It has to grow 100x in size to get to 4um. What makes you think you can tell the size of the soot by the color of the lube anyway ????

I often chuckle at folks whom run BP filters and also change oil at 5k miles, thinking they are really doing something amazing for their engines. Excepting the occasional metal particle which sheds during wear, the soot after 5k miles is still so small that not even BP elements are catching it.
 
I always think the oil on the stick looks clean, but when it is in the jug it's always black. Or pouring from the pan to the jug, black. With 5k changes synthetic on whatever car. Oil on the stick is just a thin film. I never have seen clear looking oil in the jug like the new oil, always it's black. Of course I am not running a tp filter. Afaik they do filter soot out.
 
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