Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Mobil 1 0W-40 or Pennzoil Ultra 5W-40. Doesn't get any better.
+1 slow is good.
Mobil 1 0W-40 or Pennzoil Ultra 5W-40. Doesn't get any better.
+1 slow is good.
Engine Flush - Opinions
- Thread starter Noobie
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Does anyone know the Calcium and Magnesium figures for some of the main High Mileage oils like M1, Maxlife or Castrol High Mileage. Normal M1 has 3500 ppm of Ca, one of the Amsoils was higher at 4500 ppm. I would be surprised if an High Mileage oil had more than that, although to be fair to the latest high tech oils the Ca and Mg should be added together.
I would skip the flush and run Maxlife 10w40 and be done with it. Do clean the PCV system as well maybe every 3rd OCI.
Originally Posted By: Noobie
Hey there again
Recently while i was in a auto parts store for some tires i saw a couple bottles of "Prestone Engine Flush - Only takes 5 minutes"
So here is my dilemma, currently i have a couple BMW's and one of them is a very very neglected E39 5 Series BMW with the M54 engine. Like a year ago it had a severe sludge problem and our indy mech had to open the valve cover and do a complete cleaning . . . but i have a feeling that there is still a ton of sludge inside the engine. As of now, the engine usually consumes a QUART of oil every 500 - 750 KILOMETERS which is insanely high. Now my question is . . . is this product safe to use?
According to the instructions it says that you have to add a whole can of it (Like 32Oz) before changing the oil, then stat the engine and let it idle for 5 mins for a regular cleaning or 10 mins for severe cases. What do you guys think? Is it worth it? Is it safe to use?
Noobie,
Try finding some repair shops has the "Bilstein" system in which they hook up hoses top and bottom injecting some light oil with a solvent to internally clean the engine. By doing this they just run your engine to circulate the solvent and carry out the sludge.
Durango
Hey there again
Recently while i was in a auto parts store for some tires i saw a couple bottles of "Prestone Engine Flush - Only takes 5 minutes"
So here is my dilemma, currently i have a couple BMW's and one of them is a very very neglected E39 5 Series BMW with the M54 engine. Like a year ago it had a severe sludge problem and our indy mech had to open the valve cover and do a complete cleaning . . . but i have a feeling that there is still a ton of sludge inside the engine. As of now, the engine usually consumes a QUART of oil every 500 - 750 KILOMETERS which is insanely high. Now my question is . . . is this product safe to use?
According to the instructions it says that you have to add a whole can of it (Like 32Oz) before changing the oil, then stat the engine and let it idle for 5 mins for a regular cleaning or 10 mins for severe cases. What do you guys think? Is it worth it? Is it safe to use?
Noobie,
Try finding some repair shops has the "Bilstein" system in which they hook up hoses top and bottom injecting some light oil with a solvent to internally clean the engine. By doing this they just run your engine to circulate the solvent and carry out the sludge.
Durango
Originally Posted By: Doog
I would skip the flush and run Maxlife 10w40 and be done with it. Do clean the PCV system.
I LIKE THIS APPROACH...SIMPLE, SAFE NO WORRIES.
I would skip the flush and run Maxlife 10w40 and be done with it. Do clean the PCV system.
I LIKE THIS APPROACH...SIMPLE, SAFE NO WORRIES.
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012
Originally Posted By: skyship
Using any kind of flush can have side effects, with oil leaks top of the list. GM and Hyundai both have current warnings valid for petrol cars due to damage to the type of oil seals they use caused by unapproved flush additives.
If you must use a flush and don't want to pay to use an engine flush machine at a dealer or Iffy lube, the pre OCI idle only flushes like the one made by Amsoil or Liqui Moly Pro line flush (NOT THE DRIVE AROUND SCOURER) are far safer to use because if you block the oil filter it won't damage an engine idling for 10 minutes. Even if you blocked the oil pump feed screen it will not damage the engine at idle assuming you are watching the warning light. Lots of garages use idle flushes and even Castrol make one and the only side effect I have come across is the same one as can result from changing to a high detergent full synthetic oil in an old engine and that is oil leaks.
If you can afford the time or cost there is nothing better than reading the maintenance manual and cleaning the engine top and bottom by hand, although the new flush machines are supposed to be good if used correctly with the recommended cleaning fluid.
So idle flushes are alright now? Sheesh. I was relieved when I saw this thread posted in PCMO, but then you found it anyway.
Let me lay it out for you again: the idle flushes are designed to break chunks off. If you don't get those out, they cause damage. The run-in solvents are designed to soften deposits so the oil can dissolve them and the filter can pick them up; much smaller pieces that aren't going to clog anything (except maybe the filter, in which case you change it).
To answer OP's question, like many others posting here were trying to do, no, you should not use that flush unless you are prepared to replace seals and drop the pan to remove any chunks that break free (preferably following the procedure detailed in my previous post). IMO and IME, askani79705's Kreen or Auto-RX suggestion is a good one, though Pennzoil Ultra and MMO did the trick for me in about 750 miles (there the oil alone didn't seem to do much over the course of 2000 miles)
You obviously don't read posts before commenting because I warned that any flush can have side effects and must not be used on recent GM or Hyundai petrol cars in particular. If you can't afford to do a proper cleaning and clean the oil pump screen in particular, they are far safer than the drive around snake oil variety.
I read your post. In fact, I've read all your posts. You've gone from decrying their use altogether as "snake oils" that will damage an engine every time they are used to saying they're okay to use but with "side effects".
I'm genuinely curious, what happened that made you remove idle flushes from the "snake oil" category? Further, explain to me how something that is going to break off chunks of crud that will clog the oil pickup screen is safer than something that will soften deposits so the oil's own detergents and dispersants can better dissolve them?
You've apparently got all of this knowledge and done all of this research, why don't you share it with us? I've done my own research and your findings conflict with mine, so I'm attempting to rectify that.
Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012
Originally Posted By: skyship
Using any kind of flush can have side effects, with oil leaks top of the list. GM and Hyundai both have current warnings valid for petrol cars due to damage to the type of oil seals they use caused by unapproved flush additives.
If you must use a flush and don't want to pay to use an engine flush machine at a dealer or Iffy lube, the pre OCI idle only flushes like the one made by Amsoil or Liqui Moly Pro line flush (NOT THE DRIVE AROUND SCOURER) are far safer to use because if you block the oil filter it won't damage an engine idling for 10 minutes. Even if you blocked the oil pump feed screen it will not damage the engine at idle assuming you are watching the warning light. Lots of garages use idle flushes and even Castrol make one and the only side effect I have come across is the same one as can result from changing to a high detergent full synthetic oil in an old engine and that is oil leaks.
If you can afford the time or cost there is nothing better than reading the maintenance manual and cleaning the engine top and bottom by hand, although the new flush machines are supposed to be good if used correctly with the recommended cleaning fluid.
So idle flushes are alright now? Sheesh. I was relieved when I saw this thread posted in PCMO, but then you found it anyway.
Let me lay it out for you again: the idle flushes are designed to break chunks off. If you don't get those out, they cause damage. The run-in solvents are designed to soften deposits so the oil can dissolve them and the filter can pick them up; much smaller pieces that aren't going to clog anything (except maybe the filter, in which case you change it).
To answer OP's question, like many others posting here were trying to do, no, you should not use that flush unless you are prepared to replace seals and drop the pan to remove any chunks that break free (preferably following the procedure detailed in my previous post). IMO and IME, askani79705's Kreen or Auto-RX suggestion is a good one, though Pennzoil Ultra and MMO did the trick for me in about 750 miles (there the oil alone didn't seem to do much over the course of 2000 miles)
You obviously don't read posts before commenting because I warned that any flush can have side effects and must not be used on recent GM or Hyundai petrol cars in particular. If you can't afford to do a proper cleaning and clean the oil pump screen in particular, they are far safer than the drive around snake oil variety.
I read your post. In fact, I've read all your posts. You've gone from decrying their use altogether as "snake oils" that will damage an engine every time they are used to saying they're okay to use but with "side effects".
I'm genuinely curious, what happened that made you remove idle flushes from the "snake oil" category? Further, explain to me how something that is going to break off chunks of crud that will clog the oil pickup screen is safer than something that will soften deposits so the oil's own detergents and dispersants can better dissolve them?
You've apparently got all of this knowledge and done all of this research, why don't you share it with us? I've done my own research and your findings conflict with mine, so I'm attempting to rectify that.
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Mobil 1 0W-40 or Pennzoil Ultra 5W-40. Doesn't get any better.
They might be good oils and have high detergent contents, but the OP has an engine in poor condition that is burning oil. What is required is not a synthetic oil but a special High Mileage oil that will both reduce the oil consumption and will contain a similar level of detergents to M1.
Looking at the oil consumption if the OP changed to M1 he might need a can of snake oil stop leak in a hurry and you all know what I think of such cans. I remember one old friend many years ago with an oil burning MG GT, fist he tried Moly for some odd reason, then he tried a can of Moo oil which caused it to start leaking and didn't stop the oil burning (Broken rings), so I suggested a can of stop leak which did reduce the leaks but the engine started a death rattle a week later so he added two cans of STP which made the oil so thick it would not start, so he added two cans of flush and the engine then blew up on the motorway due to lack of oil as far as I could tell. He was unlucky to some extent because there were no High Mileage oils available at the time.
WOW! Finally an example of a blown engine. Too bad I can't recognize it as a valid one (if anyone here can, please chime in and explain how) since it sounds like all that was in the crankcase was additives when it blew. While most are [censored], and I'm with you on that, the ones that work really do work. Will you comment, please, in the other thread where I detail how MMO (Moo oil, really?) teamed up with PU in my engine to clean it out in 750 miles where PU alone had done nothing in 2000? I'm truly interested to hear your comments on that, so much so that I addressed you directly in that post to ask for your input.
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Mobil 1 0W-40 or Pennzoil Ultra 5W-40. Doesn't get any better.
They might be good oils and have high detergent contents, but the OP has an engine in poor condition that is burning oil. What is required is not a synthetic oil but a special High Mileage oil that will both reduce the oil consumption and will contain a similar level of detergents to M1.
Looking at the oil consumption if the OP changed to M1 he might need a can of snake oil stop leak in a hurry and you all know what I think of such cans. I remember one old friend many years ago with an oil burning MG GT, fist he tried Moly for some odd reason, then he tried a can of Moo oil which caused it to start leaking and didn't stop the oil burning (Broken rings), so I suggested a can of stop leak which did reduce the leaks but the engine started a death rattle a week later so he added two cans of STP which made the oil so thick it would not start, so he added two cans of flush and the engine then blew up on the motorway due to lack of oil as far as I could tell. He was unlucky to some extent because there were no High Mileage oils available at the time.
WOW! Finally an example of a blown engine. Too bad I can't recognize it as a valid one (if anyone here can, please chime in and explain how) since it sounds like all that was in the crankcase was additives when it blew. While most are [censored], and I'm with you on that, the ones that work really do work. Will you comment, please, in the other thread where I detail how MMO (Moo oil, really?) teamed up with PU in my engine to clean it out in 750 miles where PU alone had done nothing in 2000? I'm truly interested to hear your comments on that, so much so that I addressed you directly in that post to ask for your input.
I just answered all those questions in the other thread, so why ask them again? My opinions are the same as the auto R&D and engineers in my area, they are also in line with what the warranty folks think and are based on many years of figuring out the cause of an expensive blown diesel or transmission.
I've never seen an engine damaged by an idle flush, but old turbos in particular have a problem with the drive around variety. I used to think that idle flushes were safe, but I don't see many petrol engine cars and one senior engineer did give me an ear bending about them causing oil leaks, which as I only ever look at failed engines I don't see too often.
I've never seen an engine damaged by an idle flush, but old turbos in particular have a problem with the drive around variety. I used to think that idle flushes were safe, but I don't see many petrol engine cars and one senior engineer did give me an ear bending about them causing oil leaks, which as I only ever look at failed engines I don't see too often.
He did change the oil between the use of the Moly, Moo oil, stop leak, flush and STP. I think it had Castrol GTX 10/40 and one can of flush in it when it went bang. I could not find any oil in the sump and the engine would not turn over, so I presume it ran out of oil from a combination of broken rings, poor valve guide oil seals and new leaks.
Originally Posted By: skyship
He did change the oil between the use of the Moly, Moo oil, stop leak, flush and STP. I think it had Castrol GTX 10/40 and one can of flush in it when it went bang. I could not find any oil in the sump and the engine would not turn over, so I presume it ran out of oil from a combination of broken rings, poor valve guide oil seals and new leaks.
So what caused the bang, the flush or the GTX? LOL Isn't it the last product used in the engine or transmission that get the blame when it goes bang? Typically it's never the fault of the engine, transmission, or the owner.
He did change the oil between the use of the Moly, Moo oil, stop leak, flush and STP. I think it had Castrol GTX 10/40 and one can of flush in it when it went bang. I could not find any oil in the sump and the engine would not turn over, so I presume it ran out of oil from a combination of broken rings, poor valve guide oil seals and new leaks.
So what caused the bang, the flush or the GTX? LOL Isn't it the last product used in the engine or transmission that get the blame when it goes bang? Typically it's never the fault of the engine, transmission, or the owner.
No need to flush your engine. Do more frequet OC using high detergent oil like PYB/PP/PU will do better rather harm your engine.
I blame the flush because it started the leak! It was only burning oil before it was added, although some might say he added it to overcome the effect of the cans of STP.
Originally Posted By: Noobie
Hey there again
Recently while i was in a auto parts store for some tires i saw a couple bottles of "Prestone Engine Flush - Only takes 5 minutes"
So here is my dilemma, currently i have a couple BMW's and one of them is a very very neglected E39 5 Series BMW with the M54 engine. Like a year ago it had a severe sludge problem and our indy mech had to open the valve cover and do a complete cleaning . . . but i have a feeling that there is still a ton of sludge inside the engine. As of now, the engine usually consumes a QUART of oil every 500 - 750 KILOMETERS which is insanely high. Now my question is . . . is this product safe to use?
According to the instructions it says that you have to add a whole can of it (Like 32Oz) before changing the oil, then stat the engine and let it idle for 5 mins for a regular cleaning or 10 mins for severe cases. What do you guys think? Is it worth it? Is it safe to use?
I would order 3 qts of kreen ,do a piston soak and a "purge" treatment and then just add what you have left to the gas and oil as per the directions. Start using a high quality oil like Mobil 1 0w40 at 5k intervals for a while too. That will help clean it up as well.
Hey there again
Recently while i was in a auto parts store for some tires i saw a couple bottles of "Prestone Engine Flush - Only takes 5 minutes"
So here is my dilemma, currently i have a couple BMW's and one of them is a very very neglected E39 5 Series BMW with the M54 engine. Like a year ago it had a severe sludge problem and our indy mech had to open the valve cover and do a complete cleaning . . . but i have a feeling that there is still a ton of sludge inside the engine. As of now, the engine usually consumes a QUART of oil every 500 - 750 KILOMETERS which is insanely high. Now my question is . . . is this product safe to use?
According to the instructions it says that you have to add a whole can of it (Like 32Oz) before changing the oil, then stat the engine and let it idle for 5 mins for a regular cleaning or 10 mins for severe cases. What do you guys think? Is it worth it? Is it safe to use?
I would order 3 qts of kreen ,do a piston soak and a "purge" treatment and then just add what you have left to the gas and oil as per the directions. Start using a high quality oil like Mobil 1 0w40 at 5k intervals for a while too. That will help clean it up as well.
I would like to remind all the snake oil lovers and high detergent synthetic fans that we don't know if this engine has sludge or not, the OP just "Has a feeling that he has a ton of sludge". What we do know is that is that the engine is a serious oil burner, which might be a CCV problem or is just old age worn rings, bad seals and gaskets. One quart of oil in 500 km is one big issue.
When you don't know the cause of a problem, then the best thing is not to suggest a solution that might makes things far worse. If this engine has a lot of varnish helping the oil seals and gaskets to function, then adding any solvents or using a high detergent oil will cause a big increase in leaks or consumption. Changing to an High Mileage oil and cutting the OCI in half is safe even if it turns out the engine is clean.
When you don't know the cause of a problem, then the best thing is not to suggest a solution that might makes things far worse. If this engine has a lot of varnish helping the oil seals and gaskets to function, then adding any solvents or using a high detergent oil will cause a big increase in leaks or consumption. Changing to an High Mileage oil and cutting the OCI in half is safe even if it turns out the engine is clean.
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Originally Posted By: Noobie
BMW's and one of them is a very very neglected E39 5 Series BMW with the M54 engine.
Run Mobil 1 oil and Mobil 1 filter in a thick grade like 5w-40 to minimize the leaks (and start cleaning the engine).
When the oil level drops below the line, flush the oil, replace the filter, and switch to Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w-40 which has extra detergents to clean-out the hard sludge. I would continue changing the oil every time it falls below the dipstick, in order to remove the sludge the M! HM has dumped in the pan.
Stay-away from snake oils/additives; the oil has all the additives it needs already to do the job.
BMW's and one of them is a very very neglected E39 5 Series BMW with the M54 engine.
Run Mobil 1 oil and Mobil 1 filter in a thick grade like 5w-40 to minimize the leaks (and start cleaning the engine).
When the oil level drops below the line, flush the oil, replace the filter, and switch to Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w-40 which has extra detergents to clean-out the hard sludge. I would continue changing the oil every time it falls below the dipstick, in order to remove the sludge the M! HM has dumped in the pan.
Stay-away from snake oils/additives; the oil has all the additives it needs already to do the job.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Noobie
Recently while i was in a auto parts store for some tires i saw a couple bottles of "Prestone Engine Flush - Only takes 5 minutes"
Um... did you also notice that Prestone's flush products are made for the cooling system only?
Recently while i was in a auto parts store for some tires i saw a couple bottles of "Prestone Engine Flush - Only takes 5 minutes"
Um... did you also notice that Prestone's flush products are made for the cooling system only?
Originally Posted By: blackman777
switch to M1 High Mileage 5w-40 which has extra detergents to clean-out the hard sludge
It's also full of unicorn horn and pixie toenails, because it doesn't exist.
switch to M1 High Mileage 5w-40 which has extra detergents to clean-out the hard sludge
It's also full of unicorn horn and pixie toenails, because it doesn't exist.
Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w40 then.
Originally Posted By: scurvy
Originally Posted By: blackman777
switch to M1 High Mileage 5w-40 which has extra detergents to clean-out the hard sludge
It's also full of unicorn horn and pixie toenails, because it doesn't exist.
IT DOES:
Prestone snake flush
Now we know where the sludge was from, cos if you put rad flush in engine oil it sure will trash the detergents!
Originally Posted By: blackman777
switch to M1 High Mileage 5w-40 which has extra detergents to clean-out the hard sludge
It's also full of unicorn horn and pixie toenails, because it doesn't exist.
IT DOES:
Prestone snake flush
Now we know where the sludge was from, cos if you put rad flush in engine oil it sure will trash the detergents!
Originally Posted By: skyship
I just answered all those questions in the other thread, so why ask them again? My opinions are the same as the auto R&D and engineers in my area, they are also in line with what the warranty folks think and are based on many years of figuring out the cause of an expensive blown diesel or transmission.
I've never seen an engine damaged by an idle flush, but old turbos in particular have a problem with the drive around variety. I used to think that idle flushes were safe, but I don't see many petrol engine cars and one senior engineer did give me an ear bending about them causing oil leaks, which as I only ever look at failed engines I don't see too often.
When I posted that, you had not answered any of them. At this point in time, I still do not see those answers in any thread. Can you point me to the appropriate post, please? I mist be missing it.
I just answered all those questions in the other thread, so why ask them again? My opinions are the same as the auto R&D and engineers in my area, they are also in line with what the warranty folks think and are based on many years of figuring out the cause of an expensive blown diesel or transmission.
I've never seen an engine damaged by an idle flush, but old turbos in particular have a problem with the drive around variety. I used to think that idle flushes were safe, but I don't see many petrol engine cars and one senior engineer did give me an ear bending about them causing oil leaks, which as I only ever look at failed engines I don't see too often.
When I posted that, you had not answered any of them. At this point in time, I still do not see those answers in any thread. Can you point me to the appropriate post, please? I mist be missing it.
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