Educate me on Home Propane Gas Service - Please

[Chris142]

Sounds like they have no competition. The rental is kinda steep. The cost to pressure test is free here. The gas price is good compared to ours.

I'm on the fence about owning a tank. If they own it and it leaks they eat it. If you own it like I did you eat the cost of the lost gas .

Some people think that if you own a tank any company can fill it.thays not true. You still have to be signed onto just 1 company .

 

[Snagglefoot]

propane tankless hot water in SC?

that 2.79 a gallon is a good price for propane but how long does that last.
example I pay under 4$ for 1 mcf of natural gas which = about 11 gallons of propane. or ~~$30 in propane
there is a connection charge of course.

My main question is what the heck were they thinking still takes the same btu to heat water tankless.. just no storage waste.

a heat pump water heater (in garage perhaps) would cost a fraction of propane water heating.

Rental tank is fine is this above ground or below? are there delivery fees
you say based on the daily market is it actually 2.79 or is there a markup for delivery?

No one can really answer your basic question you need to shop around to see what is available around you.

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The capital cost of the heat pump water heater was not discussed.

 

[samven]

I did not read all the responses so I am sorry if I am repeating. I also have a 120 gal propane tank provided by the propane supplier. The deal is as long as I buy propane from them there is no tank rental fee, if I dont get at least 1 fill per year then I get hit with rental. They do stop by every once in a while on their normal rounds to check my level and will fill if its below 1/2 and send me a bill or I can call for a fill the next time they are in the area. I have never asked them to make a separate trip just for my small tank because I figured there would be a delivery fee but there are enough 500 gallon tanks in the area people use for whole house heating that its never more than a few days before they have a truck in the area. My neighbor just bought 2 100 lb tanks and he drives them up to a fill station when 1 is empty but they just use propane for cooking.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Ok, Ill keep it short (ha ha)
Please only those who know.

New home build, first time in my life having Home Propane Service.
Propane is used for Stove Top Cooking, Tankless Hot Water and Fireplace.

Builder aligned with Suburban Propane. Tank installed from them, currently full from the builder.
This is what they want from me.

$100 a year tank rental
One time $80 inspection fee/introduction, includes checking system, leaks ect.
3 Year Commitment
Gas price is based on daily market price, currently $2.79 a gallon.

They will not sell me the tank, rental is a must. They will not lock in any prices. Daily market.

Should I do it or not? Keep it or tell them to pick up the tank?

I pretty much have the same deal, and like yourself, the natural gas line is far away. To add insult to injury, the line is on the other side of a major river. I don’t loose sleep over the details. The two propane suppliers are within pennies of each other.

 

[brianl703]

Tanks only hold 80% of their size and can't be right next to the house.

100 gallon and smaller tanks can be next to the house, but must be a certain distance away from windows and sources of ignition (such as an AC unit).

Larger tanks need to be at least (10 feet as I recall) from the house.

Video about a propane disaster caused by, among other things, large tank too close to building:

 

[chemman]

One thing to do is to check with the HOA to see if they have some kind of "deal" in place with a propane company such that you get a discounted rate for being an HOA member. When we lived in an HOA, our garbage collection monthly fee was $5/month. If we did not belong to the HOA the garbage collection fee was $15/month. Annual HOA fee was only $25, so we were money ahead.

 

[Kruse]

Some people think that if you own a tank any company can fill it.thays not true. You still have to be signed onto just 1 company .

Maybe in your area, but not mine.
I own my own tank and can buy from any of 5 or 6 suppliers. During the winter, I contracted my price so there would be no price-hike surprises. But they put the last of my contracted amount in my tank a couple of weeks ago and I can now source out a new supplier, if I want to.

 

[dlundblad]

Sounds like they have no competition. The rental is kinda steep. The cost to pressure test is free here. The gas price is good compared to ours.

I'm on the fence about owning a tank. If they own it and it leaks they eat it. If you own it like I did you eat the cost of the lost gas .

Some people think that if you own a tank any company can fill it.thays not true. You still have to be signed onto just 1 company .

Is the last part of your post just a California thing? The guy we bought it from is a propane supplier and even said we could go elsewhere if we wanted.

They do have that certificate of compliance (or whatever) with the serial number and date of manufacture etc welded onto the tank. They always need to have that in order to be legal. We also have a “title” of the tank to prove ownership as well.

 

[RhondaHonda]

In your situation I’d buy my own used tank and put a heat pump water heater in the garage. That way you wouldn’t have any annual fees and the propane would last forever for just a stovetop and fireplace.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

One gallon of propane has 91,502 BTUs.

One kWh is 3412 BTUs.

91502 divided by 3412 = 26.8

Therefore one gallon of propane provides the same heat as 26.8 kWh.

Assuming that your propane appliance is 100% efficient (if it has a flue it's not; between 10% to 50% of the heat goes up the flue), one gallon of propane provides the same amount of heat as $2.68 in electricity at 10 cents per kWh.

And this is why I have a heat pump (and an electric tank water heater--will get replaced with a heat pump water heater when the time comes, like when it leaks).

All I use propane for is a gas cooktop and a gas fireplace. Rarely use either. I own my 100 gallon tank and it hasn't been refilled in 6 years.

Good math, but the thing that doesn’t take into account is the tank. There’s no limit to the amount of electricity on the lines (other than a blackout) but you’re not monitoring the tank, nor wondering about deliveries… if you ever run out, it’s just not there.

I’ve had homes on natural gas with furnace, stove, water heater; I’ve had all electric everything, and now when I moved here I had propane furnace and stove with electric WH. I can say on a per-month basis average, propane has been by far the most expensive I’ve ever had in my life.

When I had the propane oven here & removed it 18 months ago for an electric, it literally shaved a full tank off my yearly usage (400 gal * 3.39 current price = $1360) and my monthly electric bills went up less than $25/mo or $300 yearly. My tank rental is $12/year and they charge $7 delivery.

IMO a tankless WH on propane is insanity; if you want tankless go electric there. And yes, 120gal tank sounds VERY tiny considering; I think from Nov-March I’m going through ~800 gallons in Indiana just for reference, and I keep my house at 62 in winter.

 

[brianl703]

IMO a tankless WH on propane is insanity; if you want tankless go electric there.

A tankless electric water heater big enough to serve even a small house is going to require 120 amps worth of breakers. Doesn't leave but 80 amps for other circuits with a 200 amp service.

400 amp service is probably mandatory with a tankless electric water heater.

 

[Chris142]

Is the last part of your post just a California thing? The guy we bought it from is a propane supplier and even said we could go elsewhere if we wanted.

Don't know. Could be.

 

[John105]

Someone correct me if I am wrong. We have natural gas, always had it, but propane has more energy, which is why to me I have always found it unnecessary and vain, to have a natural gas Weber say.

Our relatives got one of those inductive stoves, and yes, appears to have way more btus than gas, but imho don't like it.

 

[Rand]

A tankless electric water heater big enough to serve even a small house is going to require 120 amps worth of breakers. Doesn't leave but 80 amps for other circuits with a 200 amp service.

400 amp service is probably mandatory with a tankless electric water heater.

I think some homes can do it 200amp esp if you are at the 100-120max amp range on the tankless.
but tankless electric the only reason would be to have endless hot water..

Tankless makes no sense when you can get a heat pump electric put it in the garage.. get free A/C in garage and use 1/3 the electric
if you are worried about running out of hot water.. get the 80 gallon.
there are also federal and some state rebates/tax credits

my tank was free Delivered due to a lowes price mistake and $300 federal tax credit

With tankless you also have to flush it (yearly?) so you better have all the proper valves installed to make that easy.
Also its not instant on takes a few secs to warm up.

I would estimate the running costs on HPWH would run aprox 1/3 the propane costs at WORST.

Some friends of mine live rural about 30miles away their propane heating bills were over 600$ a month. They use wood pellets now and its about half the cost.

Its a different state but I have to believe there will be surprise charges and fees somewhere.

 

[Rand]

Someone correct me if I am wrong. We have natural gas, always had it, but propane has more energy, which is why to me I have always found it unnecessary and vain, to have a natural gas Weber say.

Our relatives got one of those inductive stoves, and yes, appears to have way more btus than gas, but imho don't like it.

For me natural gas is about 1/10 the cost of propane. so It wouldnt be vain if I hooked up my grill it would be me being cheap.
Just requires rejetting the grill for the lower btu natural gas.

I love my induction stove there is a learning curve. but it is better than resistance electric.
Vs natural gas my kitchen runs at least 10-15f cooler while cooking and the oven temps are much more even. Water boils in 1/3 the time.
There are times when simmering I wish I had a micro burner adjustment. as its digital 1-10.

Of course on the plus side the wife doesnt burn everything like she did on gas.. she even burnt pans..

There are advantages and disadvantages.. in a LARGE kitchen with a nice vent hood pro style natural gas is amazing.. in my kitchen there were some severe drawbacks that many wouldnt have.

 

[John105]

For me natural gas is about 1/10 the cost of propane. so It wouldnt be vain if I hooked up my grill it would be me being cheap.
Just requires rejetting the grill for the lower btu natural gas.

I love my induction stove there is a learning curve. but it is better than resistance electric.
Vs natural gas my kitchen runs at least 10-15f cooler while cooking and the oven temps are much more even. Water boils in 1/3 the time.
There are times when simmering I wish I had a micro burner adjustment. as its digital 1-10.

Of course on the plus side the wife doesnt burn everything like she did on gas.. she even burnt pans..

There are advantages and disadvantages.. in a LARGE kitchen with a nice vent hood pro style natural gas is amazing.. in my kitchen there were some severe drawbacks that many wouldnt have.

open mouth, insert foot. hahahahaha I've never been in a position to convert a weber to natural gas. But I guess for grilling we want the maximum energy we can get. I've managed to get the 20 lb tanks filled for $10, which is ok since they last so long. I have one for a burner used for deep frying outside as well.

Also why natural gas cars don't make a lot of sense to me.

We never had a vent hood to the exterior and I just didn't feel comfortable cutting through the brick. But to keep my wife happy I installed a new microwave hood last year. It had been busted for maybe 8 years and finally she had had enough lol

 

[Snagglefoot]

For me natural gas is about 1/10 the cost of propane. so It wouldnt be vain if I hooked up my grill it would be me being cheap.
Just requires rejetting the grill for the lower btu natural gas.

I love my induction stove there is a learning curve. but it is better than resistance electric.
Vs natural gas my kitchen runs at least 10-15f cooler while cooking and the oven temps are much more even. Water boils in 1/3 the time.
There are times when simmering I wish I had a micro burner adjustment. as its digital 1-10.

Of course on the plus side the wife doesnt burn everything like she did on gas.. she even burnt pans..

There are advantages and disadvantages.. in a LARGE kitchen with a nice vent hood pro style natural gas is amazing.. in my kitchen there were some severe drawbacks that many wouldnt have.

I agree on that propane vs natural gas cost. Propane has moved up with inflation but the cost of natural gas is abnormally low right now. Natural gas at the wellhead is $2.00 / mcf and by the time it gets to the consumer it might be 6 to $ 8 per mcf or perhaps a bit higher. In my area propane cost about 6 times natural gas when energy content is taken into account.

 

[Rand]

open mouth, insert foot. hahahahaha I've never been in a position to convert a weber to natural gas. But I guess for grilling we want the maximum energy we can get. I've managed to get the 20 lb tanks filled for $10, which is ok since they last so long. I have one for a burner used for deep frying outside as well.

I used to get the 20lb (4.5gal?) tanks filled for 8$ or so at TSC now its almost $20
I could get one of those yellow flex lines and relocate the grill to the high part of the deck and rejet... and all that would save me is about $60-$70 a year.. I have thought about it a few times.. but I have 2 tanks and its a little simpler.. dont have to worry about leaks.

 

[Snagglefoot]

This might sound like an egghead thing but all costs of all energy sources can be converted to gigajoules (GJ) and by applying efficiency numbers can then be directly compared.

 

[Rand]

In my area propane cost about 6 times natural gas when energy content is taken into account.

The easy approximate conversion is 1mcf NG=11gallons of propane.

This might sound like an egghead thing but all costs of all energy sources can be converted to gigajoules (GJ) and by applying efficiency numbers can then be directly compared.

I prefer BTU.