Edge....best OTC premium synth?
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Originally Posted By: Billy007
UOA's are nice to have. They can help you monitor the wear on your engine. But they only have value if they are used in conjunction with common sense.
I agree.
But my point is let's be CONSISTENT. IE if the test says good then it is, if its bad then it is.
A lot of BITOG folks use UOAs when it proves their point. If it does not then UOAs are useless.
If I wanted a 2nd full time job, I could list links to prove this mindset easily.
Also a few UOAs really to help in determining whats up with the oil/engine. Trending is a good thing.
Bill
UOA's are nice to have. They can help you monitor the wear on your engine. But they only have value if they are used in conjunction with common sense.
I agree.
But my point is let's be CONSISTENT. IE if the test says good then it is, if its bad then it is.
A lot of BITOG folks use UOAs when it proves their point. If it does not then UOAs are useless.
If I wanted a 2nd full time job, I could list links to prove this mindset easily.
Also a few UOAs really to help in determining whats up with the oil/engine. Trending is a good thing.
Bill
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: tig1
The one UOA I did last year on the Focus with a 10K OCI was very good. TBN was almost 4. Metals low, so I know in my application the EP will go well beyond 10K. I just changed oil last week in the Focus with 10,500 miles and it still looked good. The oil drop test looked good as well.
But in your own words;
Quote:
Also UOAs are not a way to decide what oil to use.
From: this thread
and
Quote:
UOAs are not of much value since each company can vary with the results quite a bit with the same oil.
from: this thread
and I could go on.
So with those thoughts, I guess the UOA you did really does not tell us how your Mobil 1 EP really does.
My point is IF the UOA proves your point (ie promote your cause) they are fine, but if they don't then UOAs are not worth very much and your above comments show this mindset.
You are NOT the only one here that has this mindset but it does seem that Mobil 1 users have it the most.
Just keeping it real.
Bill
I started using M1 EP long before I ever heard of UOAs. I did a UOA for the curiosity of it, since I had just discovered this new thing. It was after doing a UOA on both of my cars I began to realize UOAs are not of much value for the average person. I still believe that. Slight coolant loss is the only reason I might do another UOA.
So now, you know how to "keep it real" since you had no clue as to my reasons before for doing UOAs.
Originally Posted By: tig1
The one UOA I did last year on the Focus with a 10K OCI was very good. TBN was almost 4. Metals low, so I know in my application the EP will go well beyond 10K. I just changed oil last week in the Focus with 10,500 miles and it still looked good. The oil drop test looked good as well.
But in your own words;
Quote:
Also UOAs are not a way to decide what oil to use.
From: this thread
and
Quote:
UOAs are not of much value since each company can vary with the results quite a bit with the same oil.
from: this thread
and I could go on.
So with those thoughts, I guess the UOA you did really does not tell us how your Mobil 1 EP really does.
My point is IF the UOA proves your point (ie promote your cause) they are fine, but if they don't then UOAs are not worth very much and your above comments show this mindset.
You are NOT the only one here that has this mindset but it does seem that Mobil 1 users have it the most.
Just keeping it real.
Bill
I started using M1 EP long before I ever heard of UOAs. I did a UOA for the curiosity of it, since I had just discovered this new thing. It was after doing a UOA on both of my cars I began to realize UOAs are not of much value for the average person. I still believe that. Slight coolant loss is the only reason I might do another UOA.
So now, you know how to "keep it real" since you had no clue as to my reasons before for doing UOAs.
Originally Posted By: Johnny
I can tell you the chemist that designed it have all the faith in the world it can handle 15K and maybe more, it's the marketing departments and the lawyers that decide what is going to be put on the labels. Maybe in time things might change.
I figured as much.
Ultra is an unknown, but I think it will be excellent.
Between, Edge and EP, flip a coin. I trust the Mobil 1 brand more than Castrol.
I can tell you the chemist that designed it have all the faith in the world it can handle 15K and maybe more, it's the marketing departments and the lawyers that decide what is going to be put on the labels. Maybe in time things might change.
I figured as much.
Ultra is an unknown, but I think it will be excellent.
Between, Edge and EP, flip a coin. I trust the Mobil 1 brand more than Castrol.
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: Johnny
I can tell you the chemist that designed it have all the faith in the world it can handle 15K and maybe more, it's the marketing departments and the lawyers that decide what is going to be put on the labels. Maybe in time things might change.
I figured as much.
Ultra is an unknown, but I think it will be excellent.
Between, Edge and EP, flip a coin. I trust the Mobil 1 brand more than Castrol.
Why?
Hating Castrol seems to be 'fashionable' on here.
Yes, the DID open the door for Group III's to be labelled 'synthetic' - but after they opened the door, EVERYONE walked through. Yet still, they get bashed for it.
That is called a DOUBLE STANDARD.
Originally Posted By: Johnny
I can tell you the chemist that designed it have all the faith in the world it can handle 15K and maybe more, it's the marketing departments and the lawyers that decide what is going to be put on the labels. Maybe in time things might change.
I figured as much.
Ultra is an unknown, but I think it will be excellent.
Between, Edge and EP, flip a coin. I trust the Mobil 1 brand more than Castrol.
Why?
Hating Castrol seems to be 'fashionable' on here.
Yes, the DID open the door for Group III's to be labelled 'synthetic' - but after they opened the door, EVERYONE walked through. Yet still, they get bashed for it.
That is called a DOUBLE STANDARD.
When I chose a brand of motor oil, I don't pay that much attention to the marketing because I know the purpose is to sell the product, so I watch its performance in our vehicles' engines. I look down the oil fill cap, and using a flashlight I examine the parts I can see. Is there any deposits forming, how clean are the parts? is there any visible wear? I have used Castrol Syntec, Mobil 1, Amsoil, and now lately Pennzoil Platinum. What started me being so picky with the oil was that we were using Castrol Syntec in our 1991 F-150 and 1994 Honda Passport. I wasn't as careful back then, I looked down the oil fill cap one day and wasn't happy with how both engines' valvetrains looked. It wasn't as clean I would have liked. I tried the Mobil 1 and Amsoil, while they both have their pros, they both had issues I didn't care for. Finally, I tried Pennzoil Platinum. I have been very pleased thus far, not only with how the vehicles are running, but also how well its keeping the engines clean. If it does this well, where will the Pennzoil Ultra be able do better? Maybe keeping the piston rings cleaner.
I suppose I could have said I like Pennzoil, and that was it, but I wanted to give some details as to why I like Pennzoil. We have also had very good experiences with the Pennzoil brake fluid. To put it simply, Pennzoil products work, and work well.
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Nice point well said.
Originally Posted By: njohnson
I suppose I could have said I like Pennzoil, and that was it, but I wanted to give some details as to why I like Pennzoil. We have also had very good experiences with the Pennzoil brake fluid. To put it simply, Pennzoil products work, and work well.
Although I have never used Pennzoil products, if it were not for M1 I would use PP or Pu. Pennz doesn't find it necessary to bash others to sell their own product. I like that.
I suppose I could have said I like Pennzoil, and that was it, but I wanted to give some details as to why I like Pennzoil. We have also had very good experiences with the Pennzoil brake fluid. To put it simply, Pennzoil products work, and work well.
Although I have never used Pennzoil products, if it were not for M1 I would use PP or Pu. Pennz doesn't find it necessary to bash others to sell their own product. I like that.
Quote:
Why?
Hating Castrol seems to be 'fashionable' on here.
I think it's been pretty obvious. I think a lot of their products are overrated. Very mediocre product line. Syntec in particular has always been a very average synthetic oil. For the longest time it never met GM 4718M and had no extended drain capability. It also failed the HTO-06 test. A fairly useless oil. I'd rather use Motorcraft or YBP than Syntec.
GC was their best oil. Edge is probably pretty good. Their 5w-40 is OK. Nothing special. Mobil 1 TDT is much better and so is their 0w-40.
Castrol spends more time producing bad commercials and marketing, then producing a top notch oil.
GTX is a good value.
Why?
Hating Castrol seems to be 'fashionable' on here.
I think it's been pretty obvious. I think a lot of their products are overrated. Very mediocre product line. Syntec in particular has always been a very average synthetic oil. For the longest time it never met GM 4718M and had no extended drain capability. It also failed the HTO-06 test. A fairly useless oil. I'd rather use Motorcraft or YBP than Syntec.
GC was their best oil. Edge is probably pretty good. Their 5w-40 is OK. Nothing special. Mobil 1 TDT is much better and so is their 0w-40.
Castrol spends more time producing bad commercials and marketing, then producing a top notch oil.
GTX is a good value.
buster, was going to reply to that question, but you did a better job before i got to it.
+1
+1
Originally Posted By: Billy007
Originally Posted By: PurplePride
Yeah, RP is TOO EXPENSIVE, yet people here are jumping all over each other and WoollyMart managers to get UNPROVEN PU for about 1$ less than RP.
Where are the "it's a waste of money" guys?
Don't get me wrong, I'm one that does spend money on what I believe is great oil(s)
I just find the embedded cheapskates here humorous as well...
SOPUS takes good care of their customers. They honor their rebates, their products are priced right, and their PP line performs better than RP . Most of us have seen better UOA with PP than with RP.
My exact thoughts as well.
Originally Posted By: PurplePride
Yeah, RP is TOO EXPENSIVE, yet people here are jumping all over each other and WoollyMart managers to get UNPROVEN PU for about 1$ less than RP.
Where are the "it's a waste of money" guys?
Don't get me wrong, I'm one that does spend money on what I believe is great oil(s)
I just find the embedded cheapskates here humorous as well...
SOPUS takes good care of their customers. They honor their rebates, their products are priced right, and their PP line performs better than RP . Most of us have seen better UOA with PP than with RP.
My exact thoughts as well.
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Why?
Hating Castrol seems to be 'fashionable' on here.
Yeah, but their "jimmy" commercials are GREAT!
Why?
Hating Castrol seems to be 'fashionable' on here.
Yeah, but their "jimmy" commercials are GREAT!
Every manufacturer has their fanboys. Realistically speaking, they all deliver similar real world performance.
I don't want to be the Castrol fanboy here, however I must state some things that just seem to slip on past the radar. buster this is by no means an attack on you, nor anyone else. Take the GM specs not being met by Castrol, yet if they are not met by Mobil it's because they already have a product that meets the spec, and simple do not want to spend the money to apply for another oil when they already have one that meets the spec, and also has been said here with no controversy that Mobil 1 (insert blah w-30) then the EP must also meet this spec. Even it has been reported that Mobil customer service said it meets the GM spec, it will be fine, this is just a couple of points I wanted to make, if that were Castrol have mercy on the poor poster, not to mention the band wagon of leaders coming to ring of fire to be set. I'm not particular to any oil, and truth be told the marketers of any of these name brand oils would sell their own mother if they could market their own oil to somehow sound better, yet they could change jobs to another major oil manufacture/company and mindset would never change...
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dkryan, check your local walmart for jugs of Castrol Edge. Edge is a great oil that gets plenty of beating here because of the Castrol name. I have no idea how it plays into competing with the new Ultra, however when I have compared it to Mobil it is very similar, and it may just have an Edge haha.
I don't see the Castrol hate I guess. GC is universally lauded. Castrol GTX dino is always praised and turns in great UOA's that sometimes outperforms some synthetics.
I guess Edge takes some heat in N.A. but Europeans seem to like it, and turn in great UOA's.
Granted, N.A. doesn't get their blend of Edge (sucks too!!) but I guess I just don't see all this hate. German Castrol is basically the bee's knee's and is easily THE most recommended oil by people in "the know" everywhere on the internet.
I guess Edge takes some heat in N.A. but Europeans seem to like it, and turn in great UOA's.
Granted, N.A. doesn't get their blend of Edge (sucks too!!) but I guess I just don't see all this hate. German Castrol is basically the bee's knee's and is easily THE most recommended oil by people in "the know" everywhere on the internet.
Originally Posted By: rclint
I don't want to be the Castrol fanboy here, however I must state some things that just seem to slip on past the radar. buster this is by no means an attack on you, nor anyone else. Take the GM specs not being met by Castrol, yet if they are not met by Mobil it's because they already have a product that meets the spec, and simple do not want to spend the money to apply for another oil when they already have one that meets the spec, and also has been said here with no controversy that Mobil 1 (insert blah w-30) then the EP must also meet this spec. Even it has been reported that Mobil customer service said it meets the GM spec, it will be fine, this is just a couple of points I wanted to make, if that were Castrol have mercy on the poor poster, not to mention the band wagon of leaders coming to ring of fire to be set. I'm not particular to any oil, and truth be told the marketers of any of these name brand oils would sell their own mother if they could market their own oil to somehow sound better, yet they could change jobs to another major oil manufacture/company and mindset would never change...
I understand, thanks. Castrol ended up making a specific oil just for GM 4718M in Canada though, instead of a getting the Syntec approved.
There was also data shown on this website a few years ago about how poor Syntec performed in the TEOST test. If valid, which I believe it was, this would explain the lack of HTO-06 and GM 4718M. The HTO-06 spec really isn't important for most vehicles, but it does give you an idea of quality in relation to high temperature deposit formation in hot running turbos.
It is possible that Syntec would have met GM 4718M, but I'm very skeptical.
I don't want to be the Castrol fanboy here, however I must state some things that just seem to slip on past the radar. buster this is by no means an attack on you, nor anyone else. Take the GM specs not being met by Castrol, yet if they are not met by Mobil it's because they already have a product that meets the spec, and simple do not want to spend the money to apply for another oil when they already have one that meets the spec, and also has been said here with no controversy that Mobil 1 (insert blah w-30) then the EP must also meet this spec. Even it has been reported that Mobil customer service said it meets the GM spec, it will be fine, this is just a couple of points I wanted to make, if that were Castrol have mercy on the poor poster, not to mention the band wagon of leaders coming to ring of fire to be set. I'm not particular to any oil, and truth be told the marketers of any of these name brand oils would sell their own mother if they could market their own oil to somehow sound better, yet they could change jobs to another major oil manufacture/company and mindset would never change...
I understand, thanks. Castrol ended up making a specific oil just for GM 4718M in Canada though, instead of a getting the Syntec approved.
There was also data shown on this website a few years ago about how poor Syntec performed in the TEOST test. If valid, which I believe it was, this would explain the lack of HTO-06 and GM 4718M. The HTO-06 spec really isn't important for most vehicles, but it does give you an idea of quality in relation to high temperature deposit formation in hot running turbos.
It is possible that Syntec would have met GM 4718M, but I'm very skeptical.
Originally Posted By: Billy007
SOPUS takes good care of their customers. They honor their rebates, their products are priced right,
No argument there- I'm a huge fan of Rotella T synthetic. As far as taking care of customers and honoring rebates, the same can be said of Mobil.
Originally Posted By: Billy007
and their PP line performs better than RP . Most of us have seen better UOA with PP than with RP.
I don't think that is accurate. I've seen plenty of very good RP UOAs, but even if they were all inferior to PP UOAs, you have to look at the application. MOST RP users put it in competition vehicles, or vehicles with very specific lubrication requirements (like flat lifters with high spring pressures- muscle cars and the like). These vehicles aren't ever going to turn in spotless UOAs like roller-cammed, lightly loaded, digitally optimized fuel and ignition, modern daily driver engines do, and that's where the bulk of PP UOAs are going to come from. There's no real *reason* to use a specialty oil like RP in a daily driver type vehicle, and PP isn't really a good choice for engines that are RPs primary market either.
SOPUS takes good care of their customers. They honor their rebates, their products are priced right,
No argument there- I'm a huge fan of Rotella T synthetic. As far as taking care of customers and honoring rebates, the same can be said of Mobil.
Originally Posted By: Billy007
and their PP line performs better than RP . Most of us have seen better UOA with PP than with RP.
I don't think that is accurate. I've seen plenty of very good RP UOAs, but even if they were all inferior to PP UOAs, you have to look at the application. MOST RP users put it in competition vehicles, or vehicles with very specific lubrication requirements (like flat lifters with high spring pressures- muscle cars and the like). These vehicles aren't ever going to turn in spotless UOAs like roller-cammed, lightly loaded, digitally optimized fuel and ignition, modern daily driver engines do, and that's where the bulk of PP UOAs are going to come from. There's no real *reason* to use a specialty oil like RP in a daily driver type vehicle, and PP isn't really a good choice for engines that are RPs primary market either.
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I'd like some data to backup the "most of us had better UOAs on PP than RP"
That statement (not at you, the OP) is complete and utter bunk because I bet there's only a few who even used RP and PP both - let alone long enough for both to get good AND accurate UOAs.
Show me the money on that statement fellas!
Not MY car vs HIS car.
Show me the comparative UOAs from one person's car using both.
And both long enough to be running only the brand in question, not left over 89¢ [censored] oil.
That statement (not at you, the OP) is complete and utter bunk because I bet there's only a few who even used RP and PP both - let alone long enough for both to get good AND accurate UOAs.
Show me the money on that statement fellas!
Not MY car vs HIS car.
Show me the comparative UOAs from one person's car using both.
And both long enough to be running only the brand in question, not left over 89¢ [censored] oil.
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