Ecoboost Timing Chains

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Originally Posted by Cujet


That's not so. Users that choose a higher viscosity oil and change regularly have no problems.

The Ford 6.8L V10 in the trucks (including Uhaul moving trucks) also uses the exact same timing chain setup. The difference is in the oil viscosity.


So, what is the difference in the manufacturer recommended viscosity between the 5.4 and the 6.8? I'll wait...
 
Originally Posted by littleant
Just like the 4.0 SOHC This engine also had timing chain issues.


Good point, it slipped my mind.
 
Originally Posted by MNgopher
Originally Posted by Cujet


That's not so. Users that choose a higher viscosity oil and change regularly have no problems.

The Ford 6.8L V10 in the trucks (including Uhaul moving trucks) also uses the exact same timing chain setup. The difference is in the oil viscosity.


So, what is the difference in the manufacturer recommended viscosity between the 5.4 and the 6.8? I'll wait...



I could be mistaken but I thought that Ford back specked the oil viscosity for 6.8, at least, to 5w30 due to possible heavy duty use. Possibly they also back specked the 5.4 in heavy duty chassis. I'm not sure bought I seem to remember reading this a while ago. I've run both our 4.6 ford trucks with almost nothing but 20 weight oil and the timing chains are dead silent even after 195,000 miles on the Explorer.

Whimsey
 
Man I would hope this is not the case for a 2014 with only 100k miles, even if it was given sporadic care for it's first 70k.

You've been patching up rust spots too?
 
Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by Jason_Michaels
its mind-boggling that between the 5.4s and these eco boost engines there are so many timing chain issues regardless of maintenance.


That's not so. Users that choose a higher viscosity oil and change regularly have no problems.

The Ford 6.8L V10 in the trucks (including Uhaul moving trucks) also uses the exact same timing chain setup. The difference is in the oil viscosity.

Come on now. The engineers are never wrong.

At least the engineers are basing their recommendations upon engineering tests and not the constant drumbeat of advertising from the likes of Mobil 1 and Pennzoil....lol
 
How did Ford solve the issue of timing chain problems with the 4.0 sohc They stopped making the engine. I do believe more frequent oil changes does help. About 75% of Youtube videos that show bad timing chains/guides/tensioners all show really bad sludge issues.
 
Originally Posted by littleant
How did Ford solve the issue of timing chain problems with the 4.0 sohc They stopped making the engine. I do believe more frequent oil changes does help. About 75% of Youtube videos that show bad timing chains/guides/tensioners all show really bad sludge issues.


We owned a new 2002 4.0 Sohc Explorer. It developed the timing chain cassette issue during warranty but the dealer said there's nothing wrong. At 37,000 miles, just out of warranty, all of a sudden they acknowledge there is a problem and it'd going to cost you ~$3,000. The oil was faithfully changed by the dealer every 5,000 miles. It was just a bad design that Ford didn't want to admit to, best let the idiot customers pay for their poor design. That seems to be a common theme among most automotive manufacturers.

Whimsey
 
Originally Posted by Whimsey
Originally Posted by littleant
How did Ford solve the issue of timing chain problems with the 4.0 sohc They stopped making the engine. I do believe more frequent oil changes does help. About 75% of Youtube videos that show bad timing chains/guides/tensioners all show really bad sludge issues.


We owned a new 2002 4.0 Sohc Explorer. It developed the timing chain cassette issue during warranty but the dealer said there's nothing wrong. At 37,000 miles, just out of warranty, all of a sudden they acknowledge there is a problem and it'd going to cost you ~$3,000. The oil was faithfully changed by the dealer every 5,000 miles. It was just a bad design that Ford didn't want to admit to, best let the idiot customers pay for their poor design. That seems to be a common theme among most automotive manufacturers.

Whimsey

Whiskey agree 100% with your comment. So far my 2010 mountaineer (last year for the 4.0) is dead quite at 72,000 miles. Drive it only in the summer.
 
I hope this turns out to be cheaper or a fluke for this engine. 4years old and 100k miles and having a common expensive engine repair smells like Ford is becoming the new Chrysler of yesteryear. I hope not.
 
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I am sure the 4.6 Ford (V8) can and does reach 200,000 miles.by the millions since production. Decent engine. I am sure There are 4.0 (V6) that have reached 200,000 miles but many never made it to 100,000 because of the chain setup. Complete engine removal to replace all the chains. Early 4.0 SOHC may never make it to 50,000 milea. It seems on all auto makers the only way to know for sure is if a recall was started.
 
Originally Posted by littleant
I am sure the 4.6 Ford (V8) can and does reach 200,000 miles.by the millions since production. Decent engine. I am sure There are 4.0 (V6) that have reached 200,000 miles but many never made it to 100,000 because of the chain setup. Complete engine removal to replace all the chains. Early 4.0 SOHC may never make it to 50,000 milea. It seems on all auto makers the only way to know for sure is if a recall was started.


I don't think the 4.0 cassette issue is anywhere near as widespread as people make it out to be. I know plenty of 200k+ mile 4.0's that are just fine. A personal friend has one with over 300k, nothing but basic oil changes and it's just fine. I have seen them fail, yes, but nowhere NEAR the level that I've seen, for example:

GM 3.6 failures
Ford Ecoboost 3.5 failures
Honda 2.4 failures
 
Originally Posted by 14Accent
Originally Posted by littleant
I am sure the 4.6 Ford (V8) can and does reach 200,000 miles.by the millions since production. Decent engine. I am sure There are 4.0 (V6) that have reached 200,000 miles but many never made it to 100,000 because of the chain setup. Complete engine removal to replace all the chains. Early 4.0 SOHC may never make it to 50,000 milea. It seems on all auto makers the only way to know for sure is if a recall was started.


I don't think the 4.0 cassette issue is anywhere near as widespread as people make it out to be. I know plenty of 200k+ mile 4.0's that are just fine. A personal friend has one with over 300k, nothing but basic oil changes and it's just fine. I have seen them fail, yes, but nowhere NEAR the level that I've seen, for example:

GM 3.6 failures
Ford Ecoboost 3.5 failures
Honda 2.4 failures


People very rarely post on forums like the Explorer form on how great their Explorer is . Why post when things are working great. Mostly post how bad they are so we only hear about the bad ones. Agree the 4.0 can make it to 200,00 miles. I feel the chain setup makes no sense. Having to pull engine or trans to do back chains.
confused2.gif
 
Originally Posted by Jason_Michaels
its mind-boggling that between the 5.4s and these eco boost engines there are so many timing chain issues regardless of maintenance.


No worse than the General's 3.6L engines. Just replaced them on a RWD car so plenty of room to work.
 
So... any further thoughts on how doable this is at home? Looking around the engine bay there is NOT a lot of room, certainly less than in the F150s. That is my main concern as I simply do not have the space or equipment to drop the subframe out...
 
Getting in this thread a bit late. I've never ever had a timing belt or chain go bad on me in any way until now. My 2002 Avalanche 5.3 L 4x4 Z71 1500 has about 150K miles with zero problems and a change of plugs by me for the [censored] of it at 135k. No change in performance or mpg.

Meantime, I'm about to go over 100K miles on my 2013 Lincoln MKT 3.5L ecoboost and I had the nefarious P0016 Bank 1 Crankshaft Camshaft Sensor A reading after the check engine light would come on for days then go off for days than back on. I was going to replace the sensor but thought better of it since the check engine light didn't stay on. Then there was a few days when the check engine light didn't come on at startup. I took it to Lincoln who informed me that the main timing chain had stretched, which surprised me with Lincoln having done all the maintenance since I bought it new in 2013. They recommended that I replace the water pump because it would save me bucks in the long run....cost $2400. I just did the 100K maintenance 3 weeks ago except for the plugs.

Frankly, I am unsure of that diagnosis since I have zero symptoms in performance or sound or efficiency. I was going to buy the 2019 Ford F150 with a similar engine. Now, I wouldn't touch it. Great technology with parts not up to the task, IMO. Transverse engine 4 valves per cylinder, 4 camshafts, and 4 camshaft sensors. It also has 3 chains, the center chain I'm told is the problem with no assurance that it won't go out again in another 100K miles. After leaving the shop without the repairs and down $150 and 3 hours, no engine light and the engine running well as best I can determine.

Looks like I'll be looking at a Silverado or other Chevy/GMC pick up.
 
GM started using a Timing Chain Tensioner on LSx engines starting in 2007. Many have failed (The tensioner leaf spring falls into the oil pan) causing bent push rods &/or bent valves. Saw one that this failure caused the one of the hypereutectic piston to break-up into thousands of pieces.

With the advent of VVT.....Valve Timing/Camshaft position MUST be closely monitored! The setting of Cam/Crank correlation codes cancel camshaft phasing therefore saving your engine from self destructing.

You would be surprised how much your valve timing has advanced on you 135,000 mile LM7 from timing chain stretch & sprocket wear......It still has power & doesn't set codes, So you don't care.
 
Originally Posted by JHZR2
Does this vehicle have no way to measure chain wear/"stretch"?

Perhaps Im just spoiled with Mercedes engines.

Can an offset key be installed if the wear is that far off?

Does seem young, especially for a gas engine which does not necessarily load a lot of soot.



I believe the only way to know is to inspect the tensioner and observe how many teeth have been ratcheted.

Gen1s had 10 teeth if I recall....



UD
 
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Not that I am looking to hijack this thread, but how's the longevity on the normally aspirated Ford 3.5L/3.3L V6 used on the F150?

Also, I read that for 2016, the Ecoboost was revised. Does this revision affect the timing chain setup?
 
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