BMW timing chain replacement

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by loneryder
Stopped by my MB/BMW indy shop the other day to purchase a small part. They had a late model BMW up on the lift with the engine out. The engine block was on an engine stand completely stripped down. They told me it needed a timing chain and that you have to take it down to the bare block to accomplish this. It was the 4.0 turbo v-8. They said it would be at least $6k. The car belonged to a used car lot and appeared to have a junkyard engine because there were writings on the engine. The car lot wanted it fixed. I figure they must have got the car for next to nothing, tried to put a junk yard engine that had a bad timing chain. I asked about the oil used etc but they didn't have any history on it. Why would a late model BMW v-8 need a timing chain or new engine?

It is 4.4ltr N63 engine. I highly doubt 6k is only chain. That engine has a lot of issues, mostly due to the fact that turbos, who are running ridiculously hot, are in the V bay. Also, operating temperature of that engine is 110c. I would guess that together with chain, they are changing: valve stems, turbo oil lines, cooling lines and not uncommon due to lack of attention, turbos.
Problem with these engines is that they see a lot of city driving and they are not design for that at all. N63TU version addressed these issues and so far proved to be pretty reliable.


I'm glad you are at least giving good information on some of the German engine issues. It's better to help people than to pretend things are good most engines out there.

This engine has serious issues. BMW had Customer Care Package (CCP) for owners of these engines, where they changed valve stems, oil and coolant lines to turbos, and in many cases turbos. Still, sometimes issues would pop out again. This engine is pure and simple a garbage. Perforance wise, it is unbelievable engine, but it is like they strictly focused on that, disregarding issues as product of complex design.

 

[Andrew1972]

Yes V8 BMW owners I know don't love them and dump them including a buyback.

That being said the 4 and 6 cylinder owners love them and have great experience and reliability. So the minority engine has(d) serious issues does not mean the entire brand is junk.

 

[2004tdigls]

Originally Posted by madRiver
Yes V8 BMW owners I know don't love them and dump them including a buyback.

That being said the 4 and 6 cylinder owners love them and have great experience and reliability. So the minority engine has(d) serious issues does not mean the entire brand is junk.


well not exactly, the N47 four cylinder engines are absolute garbage................

"The problem affected the timing chains on BMW models with N47 engines. The N47 engine is a 2.0 litre diesel unit fitted to BMW's 1, 3 and 5 Series as well as to SUV's. When a timing chain fails it can cause catastrophic damage to the moving parts in the engine and the necessity to replace the engine."


https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2018/1102/1008306-bmw-settles-civil-action-over-faulty-engines/

 

[Bailes1992]

Originally Posted by 2004tdigls
Originally Posted by madRiver
Yes V8 BMW owners I know don't love them and dump them including a buyback.

That being said the 4 and 6 cylinder owners love them and have great experience and reliability. So the minority engine has(d) serious issues does not mean the entire brand is junk.


well not exactly, the N47 four cylinder engines are absolute garbage................

"The problem affected the timing chains on BMW models with N47 engines. The N47 engine is a 2.0 litre diesel unit fitted to BMW's 1, 3 and 5 Series as well as to SUV's. When a timing chain fails it can cause catastrophic damage to the moving parts in the engine and the necessity to replace the engine."


https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2018/1102/1008306-bmw-settles-civil-action-over-faulty-engines/




My Father put 170,000miles on his 2012 320d with the N47 which he'd had from brand new. We only changed the oil every 18-20k (when iDrive promoted) and that was with the cheapest supermarket house brand oil with the cheapest filters we could get our hands on. My Father wouldn't put anything in it other than supermarket diesel either!

In the 6 years and 170k all we had to change on it was tyres, brakes, service items and two front anti-roll bar bushes.

In the end the only reason my Father got rid of it was because the steering rack started to fail and he was getting 4 figure quotes for repair.

I was 19 and still living at home when the BMW arrived and like any 19 year old I drove it within an inch of it's life! I had a lot of respect for that 3 series. Considering the abuse, lack of love and care it received, it was totally reliable. When I drove it to go pick up it's replacement (Alfa Giulia) the engine and ZF 8HP (still on it's original factory fill) were still operating like a new car.

I really don't understand the hate towards German cars on this forum. We love them in Europe and there's a reason why!

 

[2004tdigls]

https://www.facebook.com/pg/BMW-Problem-Timing-Chain-293617047394760/posts/


read above, you are lucky, many parts in your engine are plastic

https://www.facebook.com/cristina.o...zYxNzA0NzM5NDc2MDoxMzY2ODgwOTQ2NzM1MDI2/

I don't hate German cars, I drive two of them

I hate bad engineering and car companies refusing to admit failure or liability

 

[Andrew1972]

Plastic has been used over the year in Timing Chains and guessing successfully. Toyota even had some issues with a supposedly bulletproof proof 22RE and plastic timing chain guides in the 1980's.

No one buys or cares about diesel BMW in USA except again a small subset. The gasser 4 and 6 is bulk of sales volume.

 

[2004tdigls]

Originally Posted by loneryder
Stopped by my MB/BMW indy shop the other day to purchase a small part. They had a late model BMW up on the lift with the engine out. The engine block was on an engine stand completely stripped down. They told me it needed a timing chain and that you have to take it down to the bare block to accomplish this. It was the 4.0 turbo v-8. They said it would be at least $6k. The car belonged to a used car lot and appeared to have a junkyard engine because there were writings on the engine. The car lot wanted it fixed. I figure they must have got the car for next to nothing, tried to put a junk yard engine that had a bad timing chain. I asked about the oil used etc but they didn't have any history on it. Why would a late model BMW v-8 need a timing chain or new engine?


OP

there may be a warranty claim for this engine, note TSB

https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/10/28/bmw-to-replace-faulty-timing-chain-in-2008-2014-vehicles/

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Bailes1992
Originally Posted by 2004tdigls
Originally Posted by madRiver
Yes V8 BMW owners I know don't love them and dump them including a buyback.

That being said the 4 and 6 cylinder owners love them and have great experience and reliability. So the minority engine has(d) serious issues does not mean the entire brand is junk.


well not exactly, the N47 four cylinder engines are absolute garbage................

"The problem affected the timing chains on BMW models with N47 engines. The N47 engine is a 2.0 litre diesel unit fitted to BMW's 1, 3 and 5 Series as well as to SUV's. When a timing chain fails it can cause catastrophic damage to the moving parts in the engine and the necessity to replace the engine."


https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2018/1102/1008306-bmw-settles-civil-action-over-faulty-engines/




My Father put 170,000miles on his 2012 320d with the N47 which he'd had from brand new. We only changed the oil every 18-20k (when iDrive promoted) and that was with the cheapest supermarket house brand oil with the cheapest filters we could get our hands on. My Father wouldn't put anything in it other than supermarket diesel either!

In the 6 years and 170k all we had to change on it was tyres, brakes, service items and two front anti-roll bar bushes.

In the end the only reason my Father got rid of it was because the steering rack started to fail and he was getting 4 figure quotes for repair.

I was 19 and still living at home when the BMW arrived and like any 19 year old I drove it within an inch of it's life! I had a lot of respect for that 3 series. Considering the abuse, lack of love and care it received, it was totally reliable. When I drove it to go pick up it's replacement (Alfa Giulia) the engine and ZF 8HP (still on it's original factory fill) were still operating like a new car.

I really don't understand the hate towards German cars on this forum. We love them in Europe and there's a reason why!


US drivers demand better durability and BMW is marketed as a luxury brand with luxury level labor rates. BMW's are predominantly leased in the US due to the fear of post warranty horror stories. Ya know things like $6k VANOS bill at 55k miles. Basically if a vehicle isn't capable of going 100k miles on just basic maintenance then it's considered garbage.

 

[loneryder]

These are good reasons that I never buy new. I had a Ford Edge co car when they first came out. One of the main seals constantly leaked and they couldn't repair it by replacing the seals. Factory engineers had to get involved to design a new seal. Then I had a Dodge Journey. About 25k miles, one of the rocker assemblies started to disintegrate. The rocker assembly on the 3.5 v6 didn't really have any steel in it. It was that cheap alloy that crumbles apart. Chrysler tried to tell my company that there was no 100k powertrain warranty on those cars. All the literature and stickers stated a 100k powertrain warranty. My company had moved to Chrysler from Ford because of the warranty. They had been burned by the Ford Freestyle.s CVT trans. Most all of them went bad and Ford refused to do anything. My company was a division of Merck and used one of the 2 big commercial lease companies. We're not talking chump change here. While the lease Co. and Chrysler fought about my Journey, I drove nicer rentals, pickups and large SUV's. It went a couple of months.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

I wonder why mfr's seem to insist on single-row timing chains. Now, my Mazda6, 2017, has a single-row chain - and Others out there with this Skyactiv engine do NOT seem to have troubles with the Mazda design (nor do I - albeit at very low miles). My 1985 Moto Guzzi motorcycle has a very stout-looking duplex timing chain - and it does NOT motivate OHC.... rather OHV / pushrods (so it is shorter, to boot). I guess that is '60's design-thinking. In any case, direct injection engines should generally receive an oil change reasonably frequently so that non-solubles, soot, particulate does not build up in the motor oil (and these bad-actors are known to be hard on a chain).

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
I wonder why mfr's seem to insist on single-row timing chains. Now, my Mazda6, 2017, has a single-row chain - and Others out there with this Skyactiv engine do NOT seem to have troubles with the Mazda design (nor do I - albeit at very low miles). My 1985 Moto Guzzi motorcycle has a very stout-looking duplex timing chain - and it does NOT motivate OHC.... rather OHV / pushrods (so it is shorter, to boot). I guess that is '60's design-thinking. In any case, direct injection engines should generally receive an oil change reasonably frequently so that non-solubles, soot, particulate does not build up in the motor oil (and these bad-actors are known to be hard on a chain).


Typically packaging, then money and weight are compromises thrown at the timing system resulting in thinner and cheaper design.

The other engines you mention are pretty low output in terms of HP/ liter and likely do not stress the valvetrain like the wunderwagon.

agreed the nasty di soot adds to the problem

UD

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Couple of pix... one of the Guzzi (and the photo shows the timing chain tensioner NOT yet installed in the timing case) - and two pictures of the Ford 2.3 four cylinder HSC engine from the Tempo/Topaz. The latter does not have much of a pedigree - and a bunch of you will be slagging it - but that OHV/pushrod engine was originally, I believe, about a 200 cu in. six (Ford) engine... and then Ford turned it into a Four and updated the timing chain with a Morse HyVo. That timing chain is very long-lived (and yes, this is a very low-stress application) - but apparently 300,000 mile service lives are possible.

My point in showing this is that North American old-school design prowess should be celebrated... The fact that the Tempo/Topaz could be offered at such a low $ pricepoint and last so, so long (taken care of) says something.

Oh, BTW, the Topaz I had had a Mazda 5 speed transaxle... not the 3 speed A/T.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by 2004tdigls
Originally Posted by madRiver
Yes V8 BMW owners I know don't love them and dump them including a buyback.

That being said the 4 and 6 cylinder owners love them and have great experience and reliability. So the minority engine has(d) serious issues does not mean the entire brand is junk.


well not exactly, the N47 four cylinder engines are absolute garbage................

"The problem affected the timing chains on BMW models with N47 engines. The N47 engine is a 2.0 litre diesel unit fitted to BMW's 1, 3 and 5 Series as well as to SUV's. When a timing chain fails it can cause catastrophic damage to the moving parts in the engine and the necessity to replace the engine."


https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2018/1102/1008306-bmw-settles-civil-action-over-faulty-engines/


N47 are excellent engines. They had issue with timing chain tensioner that was addressed, so did Toyota on several of their engines, and Honda, and other manufacturers. I have VW Tiguan 2011 that has problematic tensioner. Changed it preventively, and that is it.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
I wonder why mfr's seem to insist on single-row timing chains. Now, my Mazda6, 2017, has a single-row chain - and Others out there with this Skyactiv engine do NOT seem to have troubles with the Mazda design (nor do I - albeit at very low miles). My 1985 Moto Guzzi motorcycle has a very stout-looking duplex timing chain - and it does NOT motivate OHC.... rather OHV / pushrods (so it is shorter, to boot). I guess that is '60's design-thinking. In any case, direct injection engines should generally receive an oil change reasonably frequently so that non-solubles, soot, particulate does not build up in the motor oil (and these bad-actors are known to be hard on a chain).

Timing chain on N63 BMW engine is actually not an issue. Not sure why this particular engine needs chain work, but it is not problematic at all on this engine. Chain issues could be consequence of some other failure, and this engine has a lot to choose from.

 

[brages]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Timing chain on N63 BMW engine is actually not an issue. Not sure why this particular engine needs chain work, but it is not problematic at all on this engine.


BMW says "the timing chains on the the N63 have been found to been found to stretch and wear out prematurely, resulting in premature valvetrain wear and reduced engine performance."


https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/10/28/bmw-to-replace-faulty-timing-chain-in-2008-2014-vehicles/

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by brages
Originally Posted by edyvw
Timing chain on N63 BMW engine is actually not an issue. Not sure why this particular engine needs chain work, but it is not problematic at all on this engine.


BMW says "the timing chains on the the N63 have been found to been found to stretch and wear out prematurely, resulting in premature valvetrain wear and reduced engine performance."


https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/10/28/bmw-to-replace-faulty-timing-chain-in-2008-2014-vehicles/

Could be that they noticed on engines with racked up miles. I have never heard of anyone having that issue until this post. But, BMW is also very good in addressing issues before they pop out en mass.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by brages
Originally Posted by edyvw
Timing chain on N63 BMW engine is actually not an issue. Not sure why this particular engine needs chain work, but it is not problematic at all on this engine.


BMW says "the timing chains on the the N63 have been found to been found to stretch and wear out prematurely, resulting in premature valvetrain wear and reduced engine performance."


https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/10/28/bmw-to-replace-faulty-timing-chain-in-2008-2014-vehicles/

Yep. I posted that link last week.

BMW can't seem to build a reliable V8 to save its life. With the market moving to EV's I guess BMW will no longer have to worry about it because their market will no longer be building V8's !!!

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by DGXR
cheap - fast - reliable
pick two

just like (with women)
hot - smart - stable
pick two



Hahahaha, and yet there is this:

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by brages
Originally Posted by edyvw
Timing chain on N63 BMW engine is actually not an issue. Not sure why this particular engine needs chain work, but it is not problematic at all on this engine.


BMW says "the timing chains on the the N63 have been found to been found to stretch and wear out prematurely, resulting in premature valvetrain wear and reduced engine performance."


https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/10/28/bmw-to-replace-faulty-timing-chain-in-2008-2014-vehicles/

Yep. I posted that link last week.

BMW can't seem to build a reliable V8 to save its life. With the market moving to EV's I guess BMW will no longer have to worry about it because their market will no longer be building V8's !!!

IDK how this latest version of N63 is gonna held up. But best surprise I ahd was few weeks ago when I saw dipstick on N63 in X7. Now that caught me by surprise.