Eco-idle?

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I hypothesized about a potential ability of an engine to idle very low, enough to run the alternator with enough power to run the electrics needed by the engine plus 15 or 20A for accessories.

The justification was for trucks (lorries) idling at rest stops, imagine if they could reduce their idle to like 120rpm. Obviously there could be issues with vibration and other concerns but is it technically possible?

I'm thinking if it was doable and practical, this could work well in areas of sudden blizzards. Enough engine heat as well to allow the heater to run at full heat would be even better.
 
didn't they start installing gensets onto the backs of the sleepers a few years back, so they didn't have to idle the main engine for heat/power/ac/etc?
 
Throw a big flywheel on 'er, like a Lister.
Probably won't like the engine when it's used like it was designed to be used, but you seem to want to use an engine with a 120rpm idle.
 
Trucks already use auxiliary power units for heat and cooling that use very little fuel and people living in areas where they can get stranded during a snow storm should know what to do in such situations. That is to save the fuel at all cost and only turn the car on periodically for 10-20 minutes at a time to heat the cabin a bit.

Going for toasty warm will get your tank dry very a uickly, or get you killed from carbon monoxide poisoning.
 
I believe that's kind of the reason there is an EGR system. Not quite the same as running it at super low RPM, but my guess is that cars are already optimized to burn as little fuel as possible when at idle. The RPM and amount of air/fuel is probably close to being as low as possible to overcome the average losses of running.

Just a guess though.
 
At that low of an rpm oil pressure would drop. Some trucks have a 3 cylinder idle. Also remember that a diesel should not idle any more than necessary or you will get fuel stacking. They should be idled up to around 1200 not lowered to 120.
 
At 120 rpm, a diesel won't make enough heat to keep anything warm... They're bad enough at a regular idle.
 
You'd need a revolution in camshaft design/ valve technology. The reason things don't idle lower than they do now is because the engine doesn't pull enough vacuum to keep working.

In fact in the old days of manual carbs and tune ups people used to set the idle by putting a vacuum gauge on and going for something strong, usually 21-22 inches.

As it is my Saturn can cool off its engine at 750 rpm idle by running the fan/heat at any setting over 1 or 2.
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
At 120 rpm, a diesel won't make enough heat to keep anything warm... They're bad enough at a regular idle.


Exactly. Our fleet vans come in a diesel version but it requires an auxiliary heater as our water to water heat exchanger can easily over cool a diesel, even at 1500-1750 rpm.

The heat problem is more about LOAD than RPM...
 
It's already been mentioned, but I can elaborate a little further. The solution to off-time idling in highway trucks is the "auxiliary power unit". They are purposed to provide the driver with HVAC, 120V power in the sleeper, and to pre-heat the engine for cold weather start-up.

There are currently two types of APU on the market today, and I have used both. The first type is a water cooled diesel powered generator, bolted to the truck frame. These ones pull fuel from the trucks closest fuel tank to run. They heat and circulate coolant throughout the engine for cold weather start-up as well as charge the batteries. In theory these are the best when they aren't broken down that is. As long as you have fuel, you have HVAC, outlet power and a pre-heated engine/charged batteries.

The second is electric. Electric APUs require the truck to have additional batteries installed underneath the sleeper, these batteries are charged by the trucks alternator during daily operation. Although there may be differing designs with electric APUs, the ones I'm familiar with still burn diesel to heat/circulate coolant. They use a glow plug to burn diesel (provided from the closest fuel tank) to heat/circulate coolant to preheat the motor, and circulate warm coolant through a heater core inside the sleeper. They also provide AC and outlet power. The downside to these is they only have an 8 to 10 hour run time.

Designs between different manufacturers may vary a bit, electric APUs are OEM nowadays, diesel generator APUs are aftermarket. APUs also serve to reduce engine wear.

You should never low idle a heavy diesel engine, you always want to keep them around 900 to 1100 rpm when standstill idling. The reason for this is the cooling system is more efficient at a higher rpm than chugging at a low rpm. A diesel engine low idle chugging retains more heat than one that is at high idle, in my years of analyzing gauges and experimenting I've seen it myself. During hard operation diesel engines can retain a significant amount of heat, I'll repeat myself - during hard operation. A diesel engine that has seen hard service should be high idled for between 3 to 5 minutes before shutting down. You need to allow the cooling system to dissipate stored heat and bring down the core engine temperature; this is much easier on gaskets, seals and turbochargers.
 
Trucks need to use generators like boats, or I guess they do they just call them APU's.

Running the mains to make a little juice is wasteful, also large diesels cool down when not under load.

I'm surprised at truck stops you can't plug in.
 
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Eco-idle? For some reason that sounds like something I'd like to engage while at a light--just make the car idle really low, and start loping. For some reason I love the sound of a barely muffled (or unmuffled) low compression motor, preferably a flathead, at idle. Complete opposite of power but a cool sound nevertheless.
 
Interesting post raven, I can imagine quite a few changes would have to be made to the engine to tolerate a much lower idle. Though it could provide an alternative to APUs and regular idling. In my opinion it may not be economically or practically feasible as, even if slightly greater efficiency were possible, it would require a very extensive clean sheet engine design, years of testing, and all for benefits that could be perceived as marginal over APU units. Another hurdle manufactures would have to clear, though not directly related to the engineering aspect, is convincing fleet management companies to buy into a new technology such as this. My guess as to their main point of incontinent would be that: the engine is the most costly aspect of the truck to maintain already, and therefore they would like to discourage overuse by excessive idling. I can imagine another reason they may be rather reluctant as there could be quite a bit of exposure on their part when leasing out vehicles with new technology, i.e if there's a problem with the trucks they may responsible to compensate for losses whether it be freight, the drivers time ect.. Back to the engineering aspect, I think the others comments do a good job highlighting some of the restrictions of the typical diesel engine that may prohibit this based on traditional the design. A few of the main reasons why I think its not a pragmatic solution even from a clean sheet design is, the volume or displacement of the cylinders would have to be adjustable, along with a reduction in the amount of rotating mass due to the friction associated with it.

Essentially designing it to be more efficient than a generator would require modification to each of these two already very streamlined characteristics. For Example: By simply taking the most difficult aspect to overcome i.e the friction involved would entail designing an engine with less durability. Based on current technology an engine that can provide enough power to haul large loads up 10 mile high mountains has to have large enough connecting rod journals, pistons, and crankshafts, all of which entail high surface contact and friction. When considering this point alone, a smaller engine like one in a generator would consume much less energy, even at full throttle, than that required to slowly turn an engine with the above capabilities. When adding loads like; large power steering pumps, water pumps, air brake compressors, accessories not pertinent to sustaining cabin comfort, the difference of course becomes even larger, further making a less viable alternative. That's even before considering the discussion of the second daunting task of varying the cylinder displacement.
 
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