E15 : List of vehicles that accept it

[Skippy722]

You could look at it this way: diesel fuel is legal to use per the EPA. That doesn't mean you should run it in a new car with a gasoline engine.

Apples and oranges. All a “gasoline” engine needs to burn ethanol is a fuel system that won’t be degraded by ethanol (which any car that states E10 is okay has), higher flow fuel injectors, and engine tuning. Tons of people in the tuning/racing circles convert their “E10 only” production vehicles to e85/flex fuel with nothing more than that, with the tuning done via email at that!

 

[DwightFrye]

My lease 2021 Mazda CX-5 (49–state emissions) says explicitly in the owner's manual not to use any gasoline blend with more than 10% ethanol. So E15 is out. Many stations here carry E15 now in addition to E10.

The manual warns that any damage caused by running blends higher than E10 will not be covered by warranty. You have to assume Mazda means it. I wouldn't experiment with E15 even once.

The manual also warns not to use blends with any methanol.

As others here say, don't rely on lists or blanket statements online about what your vehicle "should" be okay with. Check the owner's manual. You might be surprised!

My 2019 Mazda CX 5 Turbo (a California model) also says not to use fuel with more than 10% ethanol. I use 91 octane in it exclusively in order to get the maximum horsepower, even with prices hovering around $6.40 a gallon here recently. My Jaguar owners manual has a similar warning regarding ethanol content as does my Toro snowblower.

I'm not panicking yet regarding the rumors regarding having E15 shoved down our throats and suspect that if it is tried, immediate lawsuits will be filed to block such implementation with manufacturer's fuel requirements and warnings being used as major evidence in the court filings.

But then again, given some of the other harebrained things our government does, maybe I had better look at the cost of a horse for transportation. I still have a snow shovel and it could do double duty in cleaning up the manure.

 

[Blueshound]

Still no explanation exactly what damage it would cause... Other than possibly loss of warranty. Even on that, the party line here seems to be that to deny warranty, the manufacturer would have to prove that the fuel caused the problem. I don't see how Mazda or anyone else could prove what fuel you did, or didn't put in the car.

 

[chainblu]

It's interesting that the 'cutoff' is 2001. Even though I probably wouldn't use it, I would like to think my 2000 Silverado would run ok on E15. Did something change from 2000 to 2001 vehicles?

 

[MNgopher]

You could look at it this way: diesel fuel is legal to use per the EPA. That doesn't mean you should run it in a new car with a gasoline engine.

Yet E15 is deemed usable in all gasoline powered vehicles 2001 and newer and has been since 2012. Yet some manufacturers still sell cars that aren't compatible...

 

[ZeeOSix]

I don't see how Mazda or anyone else could prove what fuel you did, or didn't put in the car.

It's easy to test to determine the ethonal content in gasoline.

Amazon.com : ethanol fuel tester

 

[Blueshound]

It's easy to test to determine the ethonal content in gasoline.

Amazon.com : ethanol fuel tester

I stand corrected.

 

[blupupher]

Yet E15 is deemed usable in all gasoline powered vehicles 2001 and newer and has been since 2012. Yet some manufacturers still sell cars that aren't compatible...

So because the gov't says it is OK to use trumps the people that design and make the vehicles?

I have 3 vehicles 2012 and newer that all specifically say not to use e-15 and higher.
I would trust them more than the EPA.

 

[Blagoje]

I think he may be saying that most all vehicles are programmed rich enough from the factory that the additional 1.5-2% leaner E15 would be over E10 would likely still be within safe limits, especially if you never see WOT. It's also within the range the narrowband could correct for.

OEMs program cars on the rich side because it reduces NOx emissions which is annoying to me. With my Focus, I picked up 5 mpg on the highway by deleting the emissions mess, putting a better exhaust on it, and tuning it to a more appropriate AFR.

I know that Subaru programs their vehicles to run rich after startup until a certain operating temperature is reached so that the vehicle can get to the point of minimizing emissions as soon as possible. Until that temperature is reached though emissions are dirty as

 

[MNgopher]

So because the gov't says it is OK to use trumps the people that design and make the vehicles?

I have 3 vehicles 2012 and newer that all specifically say not to use e-15 and higher.
I would trust them more than the EPA.

Sigh... Not what I said at all.

Can we agree that all gasoline sold for use in the US meets minimum specifications (or maximums as the case may be)?

Can we agree that since 2012, gasoline standards in the US allow for up to E15 to be used in gasoline powered automobiles (2001 and later by law), and more specifically those not marketed and sold as flex fuel vehicles?

Then ask yourself why would a manufacturer would continue to sell vehicles that aren't compatible with legal gasoline meeting all required minimum and maximum standards? And still do so even with 2021 model years apparently...

Hint: it isn't for your benefit. And that was my point - not that you should run out and use something not recommended by the manufacturer.

Me, my last purchase of E15 was 3.54 a gallon. E10 is running 3.99. Been running it for years when it makes sense... And my vehicle manufacturer has allowed its use in all its vehicles since 2013...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Can we agree that since 2012, gasoline standards in the US allow for up to E15 to be used in gasoline powered automobiles (2001 and later by law), and more specifically those not marketed and sold as flex fuel vehicles?

Then ask yourself why would a manufacturer would continue to sell vehicles that aren't compatible with legal gasoline meeting all required minimum and maximum standards? And still do so even with 2021 model years apparently...

Hint: it isn't for your benefit. And that was my point - not that you should run out and use something not recommended by the manufacturer.

If the gas companies are all going to change from E10 to E15 at the pumps, then it's not going to benifit any car maker that says E10 is the max, nor any car owner that has a car where the manual states E10 is the max to use.

Wonder who's going to get sued when people are forced to use E15 (or maybe even higher in the future) when their OM says E10 max.

Thing is, E15 might bring gas prices down a bit, but you'll need more E15 to go the same miles on E10, or E0. So it's a double edged sword, and especially if it ends up causing fuel system problems in vehicles speced for a max of E10.

 

[michaelluscher]

The fact that the year 2001 gets thrown around specifically has me confused
I checked the owners manual for my 2001 Mercury Villager, to see what has to say about ethanol percentages

So no lead, methanol, or MMT
That's pretty boilerplate, even for 2001
The 2000 & 2002 models read exactly the same
And I checked the parts catalog to see if there was any part # changes, and what wasn't discontinued I found none
Considering the VG33 dates back to MY96, we're talking 25+ year old Nissan fuel system technology
And those side feed injectors suck on a good day anyway
What's so special about 2001+ vehicles that they planned for higher ethanol concentrations in the future?
I'm not sure there's any difference
Once you got to 2010 or so, I could see E10-E15 being on the drawing board

 

[sk_pete]

As far as vehicles go, some are programmed pig rich from the factory.

it has to be some reason for that.
for example some older vag 3cyl engines had problems with cat.
on hwy they had bad mileage, to keep temperatures down with richer setting.
and let´s keep on mind the valve seat recess risk from high heat.

 

[Rmay635703]

Apples and oranges. All a “gasoline” engine needs to burn ethanol is a fuel system that won’t be degraded by ethanol (which any car that states E10 is okay has), higher flow fuel injectors, and engine tuning. Tons of people in the tuning/racing circles convert their “E10 only” production vehicles to e85/flex fuel with nothing more than that, with the tuning done via email at that!

It costs a car manufacturer under $20 extra to make a modern car flex fuel vrs e10 rated, it simply doesn’t make sense that all cars aren’t flex fuel from the factory

Europe has also found that hydrous ethanol or even hydrous methanol can be used for blending at lower percentages and actually protects fuel system components.

Hydrous takes 1/10 the energy to make and removes all the conjecture about whether it’s worth it or not.

Sadly we are always 20 years behind with special interests making decisions for us.

The fact that the year 2001 gets thrown around specifically has me confused

I checked the owners manual for my 2001 Mercury Villager, to see what has to say about ethanol percentages
View attachment 97490
So no lead, methanol, or MMT
That's pretty boilerplate, even for 2001
The 2000 & 2002 models read exactly the same
And I checked the parts catalog to see if there was any part # changes, and what wasn't discontinued I found none
Considering the VG33 dates back to MY96, we're talking 25+ year old Nissan fuel system technology
And those side feed injectors suck on a good day anyway
What's so special about 2001+ vehicles that they planned for higher ethanol concentrations in the future?
I'm not sure there's any difference
Once you got to 2010 or so, I could see E10-E15 being on the drawing board

E15 could be used in anything with the trim to accept it which is all 1996+, the reason for 2001 is due to the improvements in the evap and egr systems which stop the stationary emissions from your fuel in the gas tank evaporating into the atmosphere

Government only cares about the emissions as the vast majority of cars will burn it fine, even some that are downright ancient (my grandfather’s model T was flex fuel ready)

 

[pezzy84]

Fortunately our one ICE is approved for E15 so its neither here nor there for us - its going to be Costco gas or Kroger gas for us so I'll have to keep my eye on the pumps and see if they flip over to E15.

Back in the day when I had a flex car the few E85 pumps scattered around town were always pretty quiet and I never had an issue filling up. There was a gas spike back then that lasted for a few weeks (maybe a hurricane or something) which caused gas prices to skyrocket, the E85 pumps went from barely used to slammed pretty much overnight to the point the E85 tanks were running dry. Mainly the flex Chrysler/Ford/GM's switched to E85 temporarily then went back to E10 once those prices came back out of the stratosphere - bet those E85 pumps have been busy again but I haven't really looked to see what the price spread is between E85 and 87 lately.

 

[brianl703]

There is some real misinformation about E10/E15/E85 gas out there. I'm in a conversation with someone from Texas who claims that E10/E15/E85 isn't sold anywhere in that state and that their 2008 Infiniti requires premium non-ethanol gas. And her husband is a mechanic so she knows all about it.

Another example, someone's mechanic told them that their 1999 Lexus needs ethanol-free gas. I guess (since it's someone local to here) that they're driving 20 miles out to Warrenton (which is out of the EPA's Washington DC/Northern Virginia non-attainment zone) so they can fill up with ethanol-free gas...because they aren't getting any around here.

 

[RDY4WAR]

There is some real misinformation about E10/E15/E85 gas out there. I'm in a conversation with someone from Texas who claims that E10/E15/E85 isn't sold anywhere in that state and that their 2008 Infiniti requires premium non-ethanol gas. And her husband is a mechanic so she knows all about it.

Another example, someone's mechanic told them that their 1999 Lexus needs ethanol-free gas. I guess (since it's someone local to here) that they're driving 20 miles out to Warrenton (which is out of the EPA's Washington DC/Northern Virginia non-attainment zone) so they can fill up with ethanol-free gas...because they aren't getting any around here.

I'm part of a Nissan hardbody group on Facebook and see this a lot. "These 80s and 90s vehicles can't run on ethanol fuel. You have to use non-ethanol." My '91 has 482k miles and at least the last 200k or so miles have been on 87 E10. No issues whatsoever.

 

[michaelluscher]

The recently purchased dealer gas cap I bought for my 2009 xB has it's mind made up

 

[brianl703]

I'm part of a Nissan hardbody group on Facebook and see this a lot. "These 80s and 90s vehicles can't run on ethanol fuel. You have to use non-ethanol." My '91 has 482k miles and at least the last 200k or so miles have been on 87 E10. No issues whatsoever.

The thing is...ethanol fuel has been available since the 80s. It's hard to find details, since a lot of this history is not on the internet, but GM has since the 1980 model year allowed the use of E10 gasoline in their vehicles (per a TSB issued in 1995).

Chances are that if you filled up your gas tank in Chicagoland in the 80s, you put ethanol gas in it.

In Virginia, where I live now, ethanol gas wasn't available here prior to around the early 2000s when MTBE was phased out. So a lot of people who apparently don't get around much think that ethanol gas didn't exist at all prior to then....

As far as the topic of this thread...I accidentally put a tank of E15 in my 1998 Nissan Frontier. Forgot that it was only a 1998 model, not a 2001 model. The years all run together when you get older....

It runs just fine on E15. Haven't noticed a mileage drop either. I do need to replace the fuel filter since it has 90K with the original fuel filter, but Nissan conveniently put the hose clamps on with the screwheads facing up. Seems it goes in before the bed goes on.

 

[MNgopher]

If the gas companies are all going to change from E10 to E15 at the pumps, then it's not going to benifit any car maker that says E10 is the max, nor any car owner that has a car where the manual states E10 is the max to use.

Wonder who's going to get sued when people are forced to use E15 (or maybe even higher in the future) when their OM says E10 max.

Thing is, E15 might bring gas prices down a bit, but you'll need more E15 to go the same miles on E10, or E0. So it's a double edged sword, and especially if it ends up causing fuel system problems in vehicles speced for a max of E10.

Where is anyone requiring anyone to use E15? Requiring that E15 replace E10 in its entirety?

The answer is nobody is and it's the red herring that gets put out there when e15 is discussed.

Less than 4% of fuel retailers even offer E15 today in the US. Those that do (like the 20% of Minnesota fueling stations that sell it) sell E15 side by side with E10, and often E0 premium. They didnt replace all E10 fuels with it and there is zero reason to do so.

The opposition to even having a choice sure is perplexing around here...