We've had e10 since before I bought my '01 Accent so I have no comparison mileage, BUT.. my car is rated 35 highway and unless I really push it the mileage never drops below 36-37, and on a trip from St. Louis to Nashville and back when the gendarmes were out in force and I stuck to 65 mph. I got 41.9 over three fillups. Nashville had e10 as did the station in Paducah. I guess it's everywhere.
E10 and lower MPG
- Thread starter daschrier
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I'm betting the premise of E10 is that pretty much any vehicle out there can handle it... and we can't make enough ethanol to sell E85... which few would want. Bummer people can't choose straight gas-- even if it were subsidised less, eg a dime more a gallon-- if they have issues though.
The "it runs leaner" emissions thing is mostly a moot point as even 1980's carb'd stuff has feedback fuel control that will overcome the extra oxygen. Some localities ran oxygenates as part of a lame plan to appease the EPA for having too many bad air days. Effective or not they had the benefit of stalling for years while they waited and tested to see if the plan worked.
My ultimate pie-in-the-sky solution? Mini windmill generators/ rain catchers that you can install on your property. The electricity splits water into hydrogen that you can run your fuel cell on. No exploration, no distribution, no taxes, no overhead (besides initial cost), no energy wasted making the fuel, low maintenance... gas n' go.
The "it runs leaner" emissions thing is mostly a moot point as even 1980's carb'd stuff has feedback fuel control that will overcome the extra oxygen. Some localities ran oxygenates as part of a lame plan to appease the EPA for having too many bad air days. Effective or not they had the benefit of stalling for years while they waited and tested to see if the plan worked.
My ultimate pie-in-the-sky solution? Mini windmill generators/ rain catchers that you can install on your property. The electricity splits water into hydrogen that you can run your fuel cell on. No exploration, no distribution, no taxes, no overhead (besides initial cost), no energy wasted making the fuel, low maintenance... gas n' go.
There'll be a loss of power/economy with the E10, but it is not as much as the difference in the BTUs /gallon would suggest.
This is because ther alcohol has oxygen, and helps wih complete burning, and regains some of the loss.
2-3% loss is about right.
Maybe your computer hasn't reset yet to the new fuel?
This is because ther alcohol has oxygen, and helps wih complete burning, and regains some of the loss.
2-3% loss is about right.
Maybe your computer hasn't reset yet to the new fuel?
Kestas
Staff member
Mechtech, you bring up a valid point for discussion. Even though I stand behind my numbers, I don't know how the fuel REALLY performs in the average engine, just for the reason you suggested - that the fuel burn in an engine may have different character with different fuels.
I wonder if anybody has seen real world data from controlled studies to compare these different scenarios.
I wonder if anybody has seen real world data from controlled studies to compare these different scenarios.
Subsidizing the future, folks, subsidizing the future...'change doesn't come at once, it's a wave', as the Ed Ved once said.
its all fine and good to run charging at a brick wall when its 100 feet away. what about when your 50 feet away? 10 feet away? when do you decide to start thinking about slowing down or changing course? it gets harder to stop the closer you get...
its all fine and good to run charging at a brick wall when its 100 feet away. what about when your 50 feet away? 10 feet away? when do you decide to start thinking about slowing down or changing course? it gets harder to stop the closer you get...
JHZR2
Staff member
First off, there are as many ways to calculate "well to wheels" efficiencies for every fuel, that in reality more or less none can be trusted at this time. Each one has the correct spin of the program sponsor's affiliation. Don think that Universities are impartial either.
Second, the costs of exloring and removing oil are getting much more expensive. I have read that the costs for the steps from finding it in the ground through pumping a finished product cost up to four times more than they have historically. This is 'fueled' pardon the pun, by the fact that higher per bbl costs make it economically feasible - however in general, more effort is becoming necessary.
The key at this point, IMO, is to not draw any polarity one way or another to it, until real economies can be calculated, and operating efficiencies can be optimized.
JMH
I have 2001 Sentra GXE 1.8. I alwayse get about 30-32 m/g in mix driving on E10. I think it could be E10 clean up your fuel tank and all that junk got stuck in fuel injectors. Try to clean them and replace fuel filter. It might help.
What make it all strange is why nobody using
butanol? Unlike ethanol, butanol can be transported in pipe lines and it is very close it terms of BTU to pure gas and it also can be produced from corn.
butanol? Unlike ethanol, butanol can be transported in pipe lines and it is very close it terms of BTU to pure gas and it also can be produced from corn.
Off Topic: I've read a little about butanol. Stuff sounds very promising - why isn't it being used???
On Topic: All the pumps in California say 10% Ethanol - I believe it is a state law. Iowa has several E5 and E10 pumps out where I used to live. My car hasn't seen much besides Ethanol. Like a lot of people have said if you have a knock sensor the spark timing can be advanced to take advantage of ethanol's higher octane. But not being a scientist - I don't know how much that helps.
My personal tests with non-ethanol and ethanol resulted in more MPG with Ethanol. Maybe because I have a knock sensor?
I don't know about you all but I'd rather pay a little more for Ethanol instead of having that cash go outside of the USA. Still, I don't think we could produce enough corn/what not to allow everyone to have E10. Something else will have to do.
The news keeps saying how the "lack" of ethanol is one reason why gas prices are so high. Hmm...
On Topic: All the pumps in California say 10% Ethanol - I believe it is a state law. Iowa has several E5 and E10 pumps out where I used to live. My car hasn't seen much besides Ethanol. Like a lot of people have said if you have a knock sensor the spark timing can be advanced to take advantage of ethanol's higher octane. But not being a scientist - I don't know how much that helps.
My personal tests with non-ethanol and ethanol resulted in more MPG with Ethanol. Maybe because I have a knock sensor?
I don't know about you all but I'd rather pay a little more for Ethanol instead of having that cash go outside of the USA. Still, I don't think we could produce enough corn/what not to allow everyone to have E10. Something else will have to do.
The news keeps saying how the "lack" of ethanol is one reason why gas prices are so high. Hmm...
E10 gas is the replacement for gas with MTBE. MTBE badly contaminates ground water supplies if it leaks.
Back on topic...the mileage in my Titan's V8 has increased since E10 came out, but then again I have just recently gone over 20K miles on my 04 so maybe it's getting more broken in. Also, I am on my 2nd OCI of Schaeffer's 5w30 Synblend. Too many variables perhaps...
Back on topic...the mileage in my Titan's V8 has increased since E10 came out, but then again I have just recently gone over 20K miles on my 04 so maybe it's getting more broken in. Also, I am on my 2nd OCI of Schaeffer's 5w30 Synblend. Too many variables perhaps...
In closed loop mode (on E10) an engine's fuel injectors inject more fuel. There is increased oxygen reaching the O2 sensors, so more fuel is injected to compensate. The engine may run leaner if the fuel injection is in open loop mode. Since modern fuel injector brains "learn" that the engine has been running lean they will switch to an overall richer fuel map. Gas mileage should drop about 3-4%.
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