E0 or Top tier? Which would be better?

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Originally Posted By: gizzsdad
Many, if not most, OPE mechanics say many of the problem engines they see are related to ethanol fuels.

I'm not one to cheer lead for E10, but if OPE manufacturers spent more than eighty cents on the fuel systems of OPE, there would be fewer problems. I've had older items run exclusively on E10 for years without a problem. I've also gotten new stuff that ran exclusively on E0 out of paranoia and had carbs that puked in under a year, or can't idle worth a darn.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: WylieCoyote
Never had an issue that could be traced back to Ethanol. However, I did have a problem that I traced back to using non-Top Tier fuel. A few years after running my new '05 Sport Trac on Racetrac gas, the fuel gauge started getting lazy.
... {snip} ...


Top Tier is very good fuel, regardless of octane or alcohol content. But the additive is effective at *very low* concentrations. Google reveals some tests done by VW on the additives typically found in Top Tier fuels. Concentrations below what is found in the fuel was still effective.

So, you could probably fill up on third-party or independent low-additive or no-additive fuels, provided you follow that up with some Top Tier every x number of fills. Maybe every fifth or so (just a guess).

E0 is not available here (or if it is, you don't know it, as all public road vehicle fuel is allowed "up to" 10% Ethanol, and they don't have to tell you if it does or does not contain alcohol up to that amount).

Oil from the Husky Energy refinery has the most alcohol content, right at 10%, but it also has higher octane at the same or slightly lower price (regular is 89, premium is 94, versus 87 and 93 at Top Tier stations).

Alcohol is funny in some ways ... it mixes perfectly with both water and petroleum, so it can clean out water in your fuel tank, but at the same time it contains at least 5% water (if it is refined to more than 95% purity, as soon as it is exposed to the atmosphere it absorbs the 5% from the air). It's also corrosive to some materials, although road vehicles aren't made from alcohol-susceptible materials anymore and haven't been for quite a while. So it makes a good winter fuel (no gas line antifreeze will be needed) but not so good in summer.

I've never noticed much difference in fuel consumption but it does have slightly less energy than gasoline so over a 1000 miles or so there must be a noticeable penalty. Probably not noticeable over lesser mileage though. I'd say it's similar to small differences in tire diameter as far as fuel cost goes.


I don’t know about Canada but all gasoline in the us has to have a certain amount of addative in it no mater what it is.

Ethanol added to fuel is over 99.9% alcohol before it is denatured. It does not absorb 5% water from the air not to mention it is never in contact with air unless it is in a tank small enough to not have and internal floating roof. 5% would be a massive amount of water to have in anything and take a very very long time accumulate from the air.
 
I would choose E0 since I live in California where all fuels must have a minimum detergent package. Granted these minimum detergent levels are not the same as top tier, in fact the detergent package is what differentiates top tier from the rest. But I have never seen or heard stories about any considerable differences or real world effects from using corner-store fuel vs top tier fuel, not in CA anyway. It's just a little more likely to get water or a bad tank of gas from the corner store vs a national chain brand.

I'm sure someone will find a way to mis-construe what I just said.
 
E0 & Top-Tier. That is the best and only thing that should be considered. Failing that Top-Tier over E0 for sure. Especially in engine of the last 5 years or so.
 
I use E85 exclusively, at least for the last year. Haven't used a top tier fuel since the top tier thing came out. Have never had a fuel related problem. E85 does more to keep things clean as well or better than any Top Tier stuff. And even though it gets lower mpg, it also is lower cost per mile to use due to the favorable price spreads. I save about 2-3 cents per mile using E85 compare to E10, and even more savings compared to ethanol free gas. Been using ethanol laced gasoline since the late 70's and have never had a fuel related problem. A couple of the vehicles, the motors outlasted the vehicles and still ran great. And that was before the Top Tier thing came along.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
E85 does more to keep things clean as well or better than any Top Tier stuff.


Link to independent lab results and writeup showing this?

The AAA study tipped their hand that SWRI was used when South Texas was mentioned in their writeup. Any hints which specific lab came up with the results you posted?
 
Purely anecdotal. I am not aware of a lab that has taken the time to compare top tier to high ethanol concentrations regarding cleanliness. But then, until the patch, gum, and now vaping came into play, no one actually studied the effects of nicotine alone. It is now found thru various studies that nicotine alone is actually quite beneficial in many ways. It was the delivery system (smoking) that was the problem. But I have seen motors opened up that were using high concentrations of ethanol. They exhibit fewer combustion chamber deposits and cleaner intake manifolds and valves.
 
Off topic, but that's quite right. I'm not sure why lobby groups in particular would focus on the nicotine so much when inhaling smoke of any sort intentionally just doesn't seem to be a good, healthy idea all on its own.
 
In Ontario we can have our cake and eat it too, as Costco here sells ethanol free premium that is Top Tier and it's also priced much lower than the major stations (often the price of premium at Costco is less than that of regular at the major stations)

Given the choice though, I'd choose Top Tier first. In fact I refuse to use anything but Top Tier gas in my Corvette. I try to run E0 fuel as much as possible but from time to time I do run E10.
 
I wish Petro Canada had ethanol free premium. I'm forced to use their gas with my corporate card and every time I fill-up I cringe. At least it's Top-Tier though. I do use a good fuel additive regularly. But I would like to be using Shell Premium E0 Top-Tier if I had a choice.
 
For 4-stroke engines Top Tier E10 would be my preference over alcohol-free non-Top-Tier gasoline. For a 2-cycle which depends on a fuel and oil mixture to lubricate the engine, I would seek alcohol-free fuel if it was available to me and not too outrageously overpriced. Just my two cents.
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I wish Petro Canada had ethanol free premium.

They do, at least in this province. However, they use something decidedly worse for their winter gas, which I suspect was the root of my problems.
 
All the pumps around these parts say "Contains up to 10% ethanol." Whether they carry 94 or just up to 91.
frown.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I wish Petro Canada had ethanol free premium.

They do, at least in this province. However, they use something decidedly worse for their winter gas, which I suspect was the root of my problems.
.

Butane injection is done in the states when the temps get low. I think there are some other ‘anes that are added in various places also. I suspect that some of this causes some of the issues that people attribute to ethanol in certain regions.
 
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I wish Petro Canada had ethanol free premium.

They do, at least in this province. However, they use something decidedly worse for their winter gas, which I suspect was the root of my problems.
.

Butane injection is done in the states when the temps get low. I think there are some other ‘anes that are added in various places also. I suspect that some of this causes some of the issues that people attribute to ethanol in certain regions.


I believe Garak is alluding to the methanol dosing that Petro-Canada does with their "winter gas".
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I wish Petro Canada had ethanol free premium.

They do, at least in this province. However, they use something decidedly worse for their winter gas, which I suspect was the root of my problems.
.

Butane injection is done in the states when the temps get low. I think there are some other ‘anes that are added in various places also. I suspect that some of this causes some of the issues that people attribute to ethanol in certain regions.


I believe Garak is alluding to the methanol dosing that Petro-Canada does with their "winter gas".


I didn’t know that anyone still did methanol in street fuel. Methanol is harsh on things.
 
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