E-15 rule to be waived

[mk378]

The rule that has been waived was one that restricted sale of E15 in the summer time. Ever since last summer up to now, the rule has not been in effect since it is not summer, and E15 could be sold. The market should favor a shift to alcohol when the price of petroleum is high, but this hasn't been a sensible market.

In any case, the change allows whatever is happening now to continue past June 1 and through this summer.

 

[tmorris1]

I'm worried about some people (like my wife), not knowing any better, being duped into buying E15.

You won't know the difference

 

[MNgopher]

Well I sure hope no one will be forced to go to E15 yet. But I also hope no one believes that ethanol is cheaper than gasoline. The consumer sees it at a lower price at the pump only because their tax dollars are subsidizing it. But the big problem I have (and its the first time I have heard anyone in the Media admit it) is that it actually causes MORE smog. So the Save the Environment call we were all told was the reason for E10 and the move for some to E85 and the costs associated with early adoption seems to be a boondoggle.

Simple question: If one believes subsidies and special tax treatment are bad for ethanol, are they bad for the oil and gas industry too? Reality is both are propped up by policies and subsidies...

I suppose the answer depends on whose ox is getting gored.

 

[tmorris1]

The highest I've paid the last two months is $3.54 if that tells you anything.

The Kwik Trips that make a triangle around the Costco in Burnsville use Super 88 as a competing product against Costco pricing. The Kwik Trip at Buck Hill Road and Crystal Lake Road, the one on County Road 5 by Burnsville Parkway, and the one at Palomino and CR 11 in Apple Valley.

The gap narrowed to 20 cents or so this week, but its still cost effective...

Thanks. I have been buying at Sam's, but sometimes it is out of the way for me. Seems some Kwik Trips are only $0.05 cheaper and some are much more like you have found. FWIW I haven't noticed any mileage or performance difference with E15.

 

[brianl703]

The consumer sees it at a lower price at the pump only because their tax dollars are subsidizing it.

After Three Decades, Tax Credit for Ethanol Expires (Published 2012)

An unpopular subsidy that had long seemed untouchable is allowed to die amid concern for deficits and debt.

www.nytimes.com

 

[tmorris1]

After Three Decades, Tax Credit for Ethanol Expires (Published 2012)

An unpopular subsidy that had long seemed untouchable is allowed to die amid concern for deficits and debt.

www.nytimes.com

Right or wrong, if our tax dollars are supporting it, why not take advantage of it?

 

[brianl703]

Right or wrong, if our tax dollars are supporting it, why not take advantage of it?

It's 30 cents a gallon cheaper and the mileage difference isn't even noticeable, in my experience.

 

[tyman]

Considering that E15 isn't supposed to be used in vehicles older than 2001 or small or marine engines, I wonder how well that will work...

Gas stations won't care. =o)

 

[y_p_w]

Well I sure hope no one will be forced to go to E15 yet. But I also hope no one believes that ethanol is cheaper than gasoline. The consumer sees it at a lower price at the pump only because their tax dollars are subsidizing it. But the big problem I have (and its the first time I have heard anyone in the Media admit it) is that it actually causes MORE smog. So the Save the Environment call we were all told was the reason for E10 and the move for some to E85 and the costs associated with early adoption seems to be a boondoggle.

There's a lot of conflicting info out there, but at the very least most credible sources indicate that the federal Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit expired at the end of 2011. As much as many in the oil industry complain about it, they're simply not going to meet the demand for higher octane rating gasoline without some sort of oxygenate to boost the average octane rating of pump gasoline, which is the most effective and inexpensive bulk octane booster available. TEL is pretty good at it, but not used for obvious reasons. However, there is a mandate for biofuels, although it can be argued that ethanol would be used anyways as there's usually no cheaper/safer octane booster available.

US: Fuels: Biofuel tax credits | Transport Policy

www.transportpolicy.net

It is kind of complicated though in terms of price. Right now the price of oil is really high, so it absolutely makes sense to blend in ethanol, which is much cheaper. Even when ethanol costs more than the base gasoline, it makes sense because of its high blending octane rating.

https://farmdocdaily.illinois.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/fdd030216.pdf

We focus on the value of ethanol in the gasoline blend as an octane enhancer because there is ample evidence the market value of ethanol is related to its relatively high octane rating. While certainly not equivalent to a complete mathematical treatment of gasoline blending, a direct comparison of the price of ethanol and alternative sources of octane does shed some light on the question of the marginal value of ethanol as an octane enhancer.​

 

[brianl703]

Gas stations won't care. =o)

They have to post a notice, per Federal law, stating the restrictions on how E15 is used.

 

[tyman]

They have to post a notice, per Federal law, stating the restrictions on how E15 is used.

I mean they won't care about what vehicles it will work on. They'll post the notice and sell the gas.

 

[sohccammer427]

My theory is that E15 is somewhat more harmful to internal combustion engines and therefore it is being pushed. ICE's are bad, electric motors good.

 

[brianl703]

I mean they won't care about what vehicles it will work on. They'll post the notice and sell the gas.

One small problem is that E15 has to be dispensed with a separate hose, and most gas pumps, at least around here, use a single hose for all grades.

 

[Ignatius]

Or is it all just a gift to the big Ag Corp.

All those subsidies have to be put to good use!

 

[tyman]

One small problem is that E15 has to be dispensed with a separate hose, and most gas pumps, at least around here, use a single hose for all grades.

AMA: EPA Issues Guidelines to Separate E10 from E15 at Pumps

In response to concerns expressed by the American Motorcyclist Association and power equipment makers, EPA has issued new E15 fuel guidelines.

ultimatemotorcycling.com

Under the new option, retailers who use a blender pump to sell E15 and E10 fuel through the same hose must also have a separate E10/E0 fuel pump. Those retailers would be required to have a label on the blender pump that reads: “Passenger Vehicles Only. Use in Other Vehicles, Engines and Equipment May Violate Federal Law.” Retailers would also be required to have signs indicating the location of the dedicated E10-or-lower fuel pump. There would be no minimum-fuel-purchase requirement at that pump.

Retailers who want to sell E15 also have the option of having a dedicated E15 pump or hose, or a pump that dispenses E15 and higher ethanol blends through a single hose. If a blender pump dispenses multiple fuels that include E15 and higher ethanol blends, the EPA may require a minimum purchase requirement.

 

[JustinH]

I've never seen e15 on a pump, and I consider myself fairly well travelled.

My ford gas filler nozzle says don't use anything more than e10 in it.

 

[Ignatius]

I found it interesting that there is an argument that E15 will produce more smog in the summer.

Here is a video with some details on ethanol in gasoline:

 

[brianl703]

AMA: EPA Issues Guidelines to Separate E10 from E15 at Pumps

In response to concerns expressed by the American Motorcyclist Association and power equipment makers, EPA has issued new E15 fuel guidelines.

ultimatemotorcycling.com

Did you read it carefully?

The retailer has to have a dedicated E10 pump and a minimum 4-gallon purchase requirement if they use a single hose for E15/E10.

 

[brianl703]

I've never seen e15 on a pump, and I consider myself fairly well travelled.

My ford gas filler nozzle says don't use anything more than e10 in it.

Many Sheetz stations have E15 and E85. Sheetz stations are all over the mid-Atlantic area.

 

[tyman]

Did you read it carefully?

The retailer has to have a dedicated E10 pump and a minimum 4-gallon purchase requirement if they use a single hose for E15/E10.

Yeah, I did. I'm just saying, it's not as crazy as you're making it out to be.