Originally Posted By: JamesBond
I have a similar problem with my Civic (It's common). There is clutch "judder or chatter" when starting out from a dead stop and can be even worse on hills. If the vehicle is rolling even a little bit like when approaching a stop sign it wont chatter.
A little bit higher revs and slower clutch uptake will avoid the clutch chatter but makes me feel like a 16 yo. who is learning to drive a manual.
I think the problem is actually caused by NOT slipping the clutch enough to clean off deposits on the friction material and flywheel.
Bleed your clutch then drive around the neighborhood revving and slipping like a high school kid in a ricer and see if it helps clean up the clutch and flywheel.
This issue has been going on for 1.5 years or so. I noticed it did stop for a few months when the shifter cables had to be replaced or adjusted (can't remember) and I rode around with a ford tech. He slipped the clutch in 5 minutes more than I have ever since I got the car.
I think I'll try this first. I have figured out how to drive this car without slipping the clutch. Premium gas helps a ton, actually!
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I seriously doubt the flywheel "warped" from the scenario you describe. More likely, it broke or weakened the springs/dampers that couple the two "masses" of the flywheel- which is how dual-mass flywheels ALWAYS fail, you just accelerated the process by lugging it against the brakes.
But that's a) speculation, and b) irrelevant since what's done is done.
A dual-mass flywheels big advantage is that the whole assembly can be lighter weight than a conventional flywheel
for the same vibration suppression effectiveness. Its much like a harmonic balancer, which is in effect a little dual-mass flywheel itself. A regular flywheel is certainly simpler and more tolerant of abuse, but to equal the engine smoothness and crankshaft protection you get with a dual-mass, a conventional will have to be heavier and so the engine will rev up a bit slower. Rev-matching will feel different, and there may be a performance hit if the car ever operates in an environment where the flywheel becomes the limiting factor in acceleration. Since its not an F1 or Indy car, I doubt that will happen.
Conversely, you could equal the weight and performance, but there will be more torsional flex in the crank and more perceived roughness.
I'd probably opt for a heavier conventional flywheel if its mostly city-driven. Some day I'll face the same decision with my Challenger, but for now I try to keep it out of situations where I know the mass dampers are being rattled to the extreme.
Heres a good read:
http://www.directclutch.com.au/flywheels/dual-mass-to-solid-conversion.html
And a good animation of what goes on inside a DMF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXB8q3uzQ
I'll have to take a look at those. Only reason I'm considering a single mass flywheel is it's cheaper.
Originally Posted By: supton
I used to have a shudder in my Saturn which would magically go away after a visit to the dealer for an oil change. I wonder if it needs a bit of burnishing? Can't hurt to try, just intentionally force a bit of slip.
At least on my Jetta SMF setups exist, and lack the notorious fault prone vw DMF. I like my SMF but it's a different car. No idea on yours. For me, everyone says it will vibrate more, and have a rumble (the DMF is supposd to smooth out vibrations) but I couldn't tell a diff.
Could be. Kind of like brake rotors pulsating when they get build ups. I've never really slipped the clutch much. Even when I was driving in the city a lot.
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
.......your still under Powertrain warranty
Why are you doing this yourself?
Clutch issues on a manual transmission car = deny. The motor mounts I may get done under warranty ... or attempt.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I warped the flywheel while in a traffic jam. Due to asinine gearing on this car, it idles too fast for traffic jams. Needs a stump puller granny gear. Instead of on/off the clutch (wearing it out) and riding it, I rode the brake pedal. Engine vibrated, warped flywheel.
I'd try the on/off method. Seems that would be best if you're already tearing into the clutch at 45k. I did that for years in my MT cars and clutches were fine @ 100k.
That's what I have done previously when driving vehicles with a proper first gear.
Originally Posted By: supton
It sounds like he wants deeper gearing. 5:1 instead of 4:1, for example. So less clutch slippage. And so it will go slower in first gear when idling along in stupid slow traffic.
My Jetta will do 5mph in first, clutch out. Any slower speed requires lots of clutch work.
Exactly! Give me a 6.55:1 first gear like a SM465! Drove my father's 2001 F350 this weekend to buy an axle for the Jeep. The ZF 5 speed in that has nice gearing. Nice granny gear to get the truck rolling, then off to 2nd.