Driving Dynamics vs Reliability

Nessism1

Nessism1

Joined
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How much does reliability play into your car purchasing decision? I'm considering buying a new "entry level luxury" vehicle next year, but several brands which are prominent in that space, such as BMW, Audi/VW, Mercedes, Cadillac, have a questionable reputation for reliability.

Vehicles that have caught my attention include, CT4 w/2.7 engine, BMW 2 series or X1, Audi A4, GTI, and Lexus IS 350 Sport.

Even though I know the Lexus is an older product, developed 10 years ago, they lead my list, because I trust Toyota more than the others.

Does anyone else view new car purchases through a similar lens? I'm happy to wrench on a project vehicle, but not my daily driver.
 
It wouldn't even be wrenching most of the time, it would be electronic diagnosis.

As we go through life, sometimes we say "I'm up for a new challenge". May your new vehicle be the challenge you expect.
 
I wouldn't rule out Mercedes. Millions of owners don't have issues, but there always has to be someone on the bottom to make Toyota (and now Subaru) look good.
I wouldn't buy an MB below an E-class though, kinda there "bread and butter" model.
The 2025 E class has just won the "Car of the Year" award. I think Motor Trend.
Their 2.0 Turbo 4 is one heck of an engine IMO.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2025-motortrend-car-of-the-year-finalists/#google_vignette
 
Nessism1 said:
How much does reliability play into your car purchasing decision? I'm considering buying a new "entry level luxury" vehicle next year, but several brands which are prominent in that space, such as BMW, Audi/VW, Mercedes, Cadillac, have a questionable reputation for reliability.

Vehicles that have caught my attention include, CT4 w/2.7 engine, BMW 2 series or X1, Audi A4, GTI, and Lexus IS 350 Sport.

Even though I know the Lexus is an older product, developed 10 years ago, they lead my list, because I trust Toyota more than the others.

Does anyone else view new car purchases through a similar lens? I'm happy to wrench on a project vehicle, but not my daily driver.
Click to expand...
Lexus= Toyota reliability and resale. New Camry Hybrid is nice.
 
Nessism1 said:
How much does reliability play into your car purchasing decision? I'm considering buying a new "entry level luxury" vehicle next year, but several brands which are prominent in that space, such as BMW, Audi/VW, Mercedes, Cadillac, have a questionable reputation for reliability.

Vehicles that have caught my attention include, CT4 w/2.7 engine, BMW 2 series or X1, Audi A4, GTI, and Lexus IS 350 Sport.

Even though I know the Lexus is an older product, developed 10 years ago, they lead my list, because I trust Toyota more than the others.

Does anyone else view new car purchases through a similar lens? I'm happy to wrench on a project vehicle, but not my daily driver.
Click to expand...
Having participated in amateur racing in SCCA for years, I got to drive a lot of different cars. For driving dynamics I prefer lightweight cars. The Mazda Miata has some of the best driving dynamics of any car on the planet at any price. That is no joke. Most luxury cars are much too heavy, and the suspensions are much too soft. They can be powerful and fast, and quiet, but that's something different from "driving dynamics" - more like a point and shoot lead sled. The Miata also has excellent reliability and longevity, and low cost of ownership. Luxury? No, it's too small & noisy. Impress the neighbors? Not so much, anyone can afford one. But dynamic and fun? Hell yes. And reliable.
 
We had a briefing by Honda engineers when the previous generation MDX was coming out. Honda is a Dassault customer.

“Luxury” meant thicker glass and more sound deadening.
 
Nessism1 said:
How much does reliability play into your car purchasing decision?
Click to expand...
Very highly, although durability is up there. Regardless of how one wants to define either term, I usually plan on 10yr/250k or thereabouts ownership. I don't enjoy going to dealerships, nor to used car lots, nor to random strangers houses. I'd prefer to do this as least as possible. Thus, buy something that will last as long as possible. But I am also no mechanic, so I have in the past moved on simply because it was getting old, rusty, or lacking safety items. So it's some strange map of reliability, lifespan, initial cost, running cost, and total cost.

I realize many on there pooh the idea but I'll take boring over exciting any day of the week. Maybe in another lifetime that will change, but for now, boring is good.
 
Nessism1 said:
How much does reliability play into your car purchasing decision? I'm considering buying a new "entry level luxury" vehicle next year, but several brands which are prominent in that space, such as BMW, Audi/VW, Mercedes, Cadillac, have a questionable reputation for reliability.

Vehicles that have caught my attention include, CT4 w/2.7 engine, BMW 2 series or X1, Audi A4, GTI, and Lexus IS 350 Sport.

Even though I know the Lexus is an older product, developed 10 years ago, they lead my list, because I trust Toyota more than the others.

Does anyone else view new car purchases through a similar lens? I'm happy to wrench on a project vehicle, but not my daily driver.
Click to expand...
My M5 was reliable (didn't break down) but was not an overly inexpensive car to own due to the schedule at which things needed replacing, like the clutch (and flywheel needing to be resurfaced) needing to be replaced at ~150,000km, which was expected; was normal for that car, but was not inexpensive. The rear main seal was seeping and also needed to be replaced at the same time.

I foolishly sold it (traded it on a Charger SRT-8) when it needed a new driveshaft because BMW doesn't use u-joints (CV joints instead) and the driveshaft needed to be replaced as a unit for several thousand dollars, despite there being nothing actually wrong with the shaft itself.

Car had beautiful driving dynamics however, the best seats of anything I've ever owned, and was a true joy to drive. I would describe it as "needy", not unreliable, but I'd assume M-cars, and their Mercedes AMG friends, are that way due to their intended purpose and this doesn't necessarily translate to their most sedate stable mates.
 
Nessism1 said:
How much does reliability play into your car purchasing decision? I'm considering buying a new "entry level luxury" vehicle next year, but several brands which are prominent in that space, such as BMW, Audi/VW, Mercedes, Cadillac, have a questionable reputation for reliability.

Vehicles that have caught my attention include, CT4 w/2.7 engine, BMW 2 series or X1, Audi A4, GTI, and Lexus IS 350 Sport.

Even though I know the Lexus is an older product, developed 10 years ago, they lead my list, because I trust Toyota more than the others.

Does anyone else view new car purchases through a similar lens? I'm happy to wrench on a project vehicle, but not my daily driver.
Click to expand...
Based on my vehicle list, you can tell that other than the "horse hauler", I'm more about the drive, than the reliability.
But I have to admit, two of my friends ditched a BMW M6 and Ferrari California for Lexus LC500s and have been in pure bliss the past few years. Not one issue, and simply oil changes and tires. Something to be said for that.
 
JohnnyG said:
Huh? French meaning "to battle", and an aviation company. I looked that one up, never having heard it before. Can you please explain your usage of this word?
Do you mean that they are a customer of the French aviation company?
Click to expand...
Dassault sells a suite of engineering software products. (ENOVIA is horrible, IMO)
 
Don't buy something that is so unreliable you can't afford the maintenance, but at the same time buying a vehicle based ONLY on reliability is dumb. Everything has problems, even Toyotas and Hondas. Lexus parts are very expensive if they don't have a Toyota cross. Life is short, a good compromise is to drive something you enjoy driving but make yourself aware of potential repairs so you can prepare financially incase they occur.

I had a 2009 E90 BMW for 7 years, it was probably one of the most solid cars I've owned, but I also did my homework on what maintenance and repairs were common.
 
OVERKILL said:
My M5 was reliable (didn't break down) but was not an overly inexpensive car to own due to the schedule at which things needed replacing, like the clutch (and flywheel needing to be resurfaced) needing to be replaced at ~150,000km, which was expected; was normal for that car, but was not inexpensive. The rear main seal was seeping and also needed to be replaced at the same time.

I foolishly sold it (traded it on a Charger SRT-8) when it needed a new driveshaft because BMW doesn't use u-joints (CV joints instead) and the driveshaft needed to be replaced as a unit for several thousand dollars, despite there being nothing actually wrong with the shaft itself.

Car had beautiful driving dynamics however, the best seats of anything I've ever owned, and was a true joy to drive. I would describe it as "needy", not unreliable, but I'd assume M-cars, and their Mercedes AMG friends, are that way due to their intended purpose and this doesn't necessarily translate to their most sedate stable mates.
Click to expand...

I was kind of surprised when you got rid of M5.
I also remember when you bought it and posted pictures.

No way I would have got rid of that M5 for a Dodge. Zero possibility.
 
MRC01 said:
Having participated in amateur racing in SCCA for years, I got to drive a lot of different cars. For driving dynamics I prefer lightweight cars. The Mazda Miata has some of the best driving dynamics of any car on the planet at any price. That is no joke. Most luxury cars are much too heavy, and the suspensions are much too soft. They can be powerful and fast, and quiet, but that's something different from "driving dynamics" - more like a point and shoot lead sled. The Miata also has excellent reliability and longevity, and low cost of ownership. Luxury? No, it's too small & noisy. Impress the neighbors? Not so much, anyone can afford one. But dynamic and fun? Hell yes. And reliable.
Click to expand...

Are you talking the original Miata or a newer less than 5 year old Miata ?
 
Dave Hess said:
Are you talking the original Miata or a newer less than 5 year old Miata ?
Click to expand...
The ones I drove were older models but friends and reviews say the new ones are similar, with a bit more power. Still perfectly balanced and well built, if small and noisy. Hard to find a modern car that weighs only 2400 lbs but Mazda pulls it off somehow. I know the OP is looking for a different kind of car but when someone says, "driving dynamics" that is pretty much defined by the Miata and a few other small lightweight rear wheel drive cars.
 
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