Driving a stick -- interesting but highly obsolete

[M1Accord]

Just a quick comparison between a stick sport coupe I am learning to drive with (88 Integra in perfect condition) and a 92 Corolla automatic daily driver I have. While it is fun to throw the stick around and "select" my own gear, I think the joy factor is highly over-rated and the technology is truly obsolete.

1) Once highway speed is achieved, either car would be in the highest gear and that would take up at least 80% of the driving most people do.

2) On twisty hilly roads where a manual supposes to shine, I can see the advantage as far as lower fuel consumption and 'perceived' sporty feeling. However, I think people would do better if they just keep both hand on the steering wheel and concentrate on making that turn perfectly using their gas pedal.

3) Stop-n-go traffic is a no brainer, especially if lane merging is involved.

4) Same for city driving.

I am learning to drive a stick because chances are a used truck or off-road vehicle I am buying in the future would be in stick. It is one way to eliminate having to worry about whether a transmission will hold up. A clutch job is roughly 600-800 dollars, which is way cheaper than an auto rebuild. However, I think a good driver can have an auto to last as long as the manual. For safety factor, the auto transmission far exceed the manual. An auto can also be shifted if there is ever a true need. I tried to take my transmission off Over-Drive on mountain path before to save on the brake and utilize the higher rpm from a lower gear. However, I end-up using more gas that way.

So, beside the cave man sense of need to have "driver engagement" is there a reason to have a stick? For the record, my definition of driver engagement is knowing your vehicle well and be able to drive it the most efficiently, not just in fuel consumption for longevity of parts such as brake, engine, transmission, etc.

 

[BobFout]

There is no replacement for actually being in control of the powerplant and vehcile. *I* choose the gear, *I* choose when to shift.

No frappa-moche-latte-burger-makeup-cellphone with a manual.

 

[sangyup81]

Dual clutch automatics and CVTs I'm ok with but I'd prefer not to deal with torque converters.

 

[bdcardinal]

If i lived in a major metro area i would own an automatic assuming the vehicle had some sort of manual override.

Manual in a car with actual power is too much fun to drive to deal with a sloshbox.

 

[AuthorEditor]

For starters, a manual transmission is generally simpler, cheaper, and much less costly to repair. In general, they last longer too. I'm not sure why you say an auto is "safer" than a manual. Manual trans. generally gets better gas mileage overall. A skilled driver can always have the car in the correct gear for the speed, load, acceleration, etc. There is less slip in the drivetrain, meaning more efficiency and better mileage. With a manual you can slip the clutch when accelerating on ice or pulling slowly out of deep snow, preventing wheel spin, etc. Modern autos are really good, but there are benefits to a manual.

 

[flacoman]

The one thing that an autobox does not have is the ability to see and judge the road ahead , hence it will always be a step behind.

 

[MegaCorp]

With a Manual you drive the car, with an automatic the car drives you around.

A connection between man controlling machine that cannot be duplicated with a slush box

 

[cryption]

I'll never, never, NEVER purchase another car without a manual.

I had an Acura TSX with the flappy paddles and it was TERRIBLE. Very unresponsive etc. I've driven Volkswagen's DSG and it's not much better. I would take an autotragic without any form of gear selection over the frustration of waiting on a flappy paddle to decide to do what you ask it to.

3 Pedals for me, please. If they stop making them I'll just buy old cars.

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
There is no replacement for actually being in control of the powerplant and vehcile. *I* choose the gear, *I* choose when to shift.

No frappa-moche-latte-burger-makeup-cellphone with a manual.


Trust me, I don't even listen to music when I drive my car. I want windows up and music off. On clear highways, I'll go for some talk radio (Click & Clack or something fun on NPR but no news or sport [censored] to distract me.) So the frappa-moche-latte-burger-makeup-cellphone doesn't apply to me. However, I am sure stick driver drink coffee, talk on cellphone (they may use bluetooth now) and do other things too.

You can shift with an automatic by either pressing the gas pedal hard to get to passing gear or just move the lever yourself.

 

[stranger706]

Your perspective is typical of someone that is learning to drive stick. Your attitude will change as you become more experienced.

Mine did. I count the days until I can get another manual.

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: flacoman
The one thing that an autobox does not have is the ability to see and judge the road ahead , hence it will always be a step behind.


I beg the difference. It is easier to see and judge the road ahead with a automatic because there is no distraction and there is only one pedal to master. This is how some folks like myself can go over 100k without having to change brake pads.

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
Originally Posted By: flacoman
The one thing that an autobox does not have is the ability to see and judge the road ahead , hence it will always be a step behind.


I beg the difference. It is easier to see and judge the road ahead with a automatic because there is no distraction and there is only one pedal to master. This is how some folks like myself can go over 100k without having to change brake pads.

What he's talking about is when you go on a slight downhill followed by an uphill. The auto will upshift leaving itself with too little power for the uphill. The auto will usually not downshift for a second or two. With a manual, the human driver will see that it is not advantageous to upshift in the first place.

Also, manual is not a distraction if you're good at it. You'll get to that point at about the 1 month mark of every day driving.

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
For starters, a manual transmission is generally simpler, cheaper, and much less costly to repair. In general, they last longer too. I'm not sure why you say an auto is "safer" than a manual. Manual trans. generally gets better gas mileage overall. A skilled driver can always have the car in the correct gear for the speed, load, acceleration, etc. There is less slip in the drivetrain, meaning more efficiency and better mileage. With a manual you can slip the clutch when accelerating on ice or pulling slowly out of deep snow, preventing wheel spin, etc. Modern autos are really good, but there are benefits to a manual.


With manual, there are 3 pedals to master. This is why people hate driving manual in stop-no-traffic. Things get much worse when they need to change lanes in such traffic. With an auto, I can just tap the brake once in awhile in slow stop and go traffic and never have to worry about the gas pedal unless I need to merge lane. I would say, gas mileage is much better with an auto in stop-n-go traffic. My logic is that, when there are less things to work with, a simpler driving machine will be a safer driving machine if we're dealing with a same parameter of driver; safe, attentive, and experienced.

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
For starters, a manual transmission is generally simpler, cheaper, and much less costly to repair. In general, they last longer too. I'm not sure why you say an auto is "safer" than a manual. Manual trans. generally gets better gas mileage overall. A skilled driver can always have the car in the correct gear for the speed, load, acceleration, etc. There is less slip in the drivetrain, meaning more efficiency and better mileage. With a manual you can slip the clutch when accelerating on ice or pulling slowly out of deep snow, preventing wheel spin, etc. Modern autos are really good, but there are benefits to a manual.


With manual, there are 3 pedals to master. This is why people hate driving manual in stop-no-traffic. Things get much worse when they need to change lanes in such traffic. With an auto, I can just tap the brake once in awhile in slow stop and go traffic and never have to worry about the gas pedal unless I need to merge lane. I would say, gas mileage is much better with an auto in stop-n-go traffic. My logic is that, when there are less things to work with, a simpler driving machine will be a safer driving machine if we're dealing with a same parameter of driver; safe, attentive, and experienced.

I actually prefer manual in traffic. I'm less likely to rear end the car in front of me and I use my brakes a lot less. When you let go of the brake on an automatic, it's too much power when you're really caught in stop and go traffic. With a clutch you can engage and disengage the power-train quickly.

Also, engine braking can give you that extra stopping power that's the difference between an accident and a near miss.

 

[SLCraig]

You people can debate all you want about which is better, I will always take manual until its available til the day I die, or the day my legs refuse to work properly... Maybe then I shouldn't be driving at all?

I love driving manual transmission, end of story!

 

[KrisZ]

Also, if manual transmission is supposedly obsolete and the "chore" of changing gears is such a primitive method of driving, then why on earth the rest of the world drives manual cars for the better part?

This is only NA thinking, automatics are not superior to manuals at all, if they were, they would've caught up with fuel economy and general drive train losses long time ago, but they didn't.

The concept may be old, but is far from being obsolete. Just like the wheel, should we obsolete this too, it's very old you know

 

[IndyIan]

Also if you tow with an underpowered vehicle, a manual is a necessity. I dragged a 2000lb+ 5x10' U-haul trailer 5000 miles with my 127hp Tracker, I wouldn't do it again but the transmission and motor survived just fine. Depending on the wind I sometimes had to run 4th gear all day on the flats and 3rd on the uphills on the interstate.
I am pretty sure if I had the automatic it would have outright failed or atleast had its life severely shortened if I ran it for days without being able to lock the TC at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle...

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: sangyup81
Originally Posted By: M1Accord
Originally Posted By: flacoman
The one thing that an autobox does not have is the ability to see and judge the road ahead , hence it will always be a step behind.


I beg the difference. It is easier to see and judge the road ahead with a automatic because there is no distraction and there is only one pedal to master. This is how some folks like myself can go over 100k without having to change brake pads.

What he's talking about is when you go on a slight downhill followed by an uphill. The auto will upshift leaving itself with too little power for the uphill. The auto will usually not downshift for a second or two. With a manual, the human driver will see that it is not advantageous to upshift in the first place.

Also, manual is not a distraction if you're good at it. You'll get to that point at about the 1 month mark of every day driving.


Maybe I am off a different breed, but I judge hill very well with an auto. When going down hill, I coast down 2/3 of the way if I am already doing the speed limit. Then I give it gas on the last 1/3 and keep it steedy while going up hill. I never have to brake while going downhill or uphill like many people I see on the road. This is how I can get 150k miles out of a set of front brake pads while having 35% of my driving in stop-n-go traffic.

I also have oversize rear view mirror to see around me. And I do look at my mirrors a lot to know who are around me, especially in heavy traffic. I am the guy that keep a safe distance between the front vehicle but is attentive enough to roll up to let someone behind me merge in, unlike 9999 out of 10000 drivers out there, auto or stick, who may be less inclined to move up a few feet let someone cleanly merge in behind.

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Also if you tow with an underpowered vehicle, a manual is a necessity. I dragged a 2000lb+ 5x10' U-haul trailer 5000 miles with my 127hp Tracker, I wouldn't do it again but the transmission and motor survived just fine. Depending on the wind I sometimes had to run 4th gear all day on the flats and 3rd on the uphills on the interstate.
I am pretty sure if I had the automatic it would have outright failed or atleast had its life severely shortened if I ran it for days without being able to lock the TC at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle...


I completely agree with you for Japanese cars from the 80s that have around 50 hp, a manual is a must. I am trying to acquire a CRX that gets around 60 hp for daily commuting without much luck. All I see are mod CRX that kids trashed up.

I have a 92 Corolla with probably less than 100 hp now that is is old. The original hp rating was 102 hp I believe. Honestly, I think it has way too much power for daily commuting. It is hard to keep it under 70 mph on interstate and freeway. At 2500 rmp, it will get to 70 mph without any problem. It gets up and go fine from stop under most circumstance. On very steep hills acceleration or interstate merging from a tight on-ramp are only time I need to give me decent amount of pressure to the accelerator. It is no sport car but it is not under-powered. Then again, this could be because I know how to use it well instead of buying the hype of needing at least 200 hp for even a 4-bangers they have now.

 

[Russell]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
Just a quick comparison between a stick sport coupe I am learning to drive with (88 Integra in perfect condition) and a 92 Corolla automatic daily driver I have. While it is fun to throw the stick around and "select" my own gear, I think the joy factor is highly over-rated and the technology is truly obsolete.

1) Once highway speed is achieved, either car would be in the highest gear and that would take up at least 80% of the driving most people do.

2) On twisty hilly roads where a manual supposes to shine, I can see the advantage as far as lower fuel consumption and 'perceived' sporty feeling. However, I think people would do better if they just keep both hand on the steering wheel and concentrate on making that turn perfectly using their gas pedal.

3) Stop-n-go traffic is a no brainer, especially if lane merging is involved.

4) Same for city driving.

I am learning to drive a stick because chances are a used truck or off-road vehicle I am buying in the future would be in stick. It is one way to eliminate having to worry about whether a transmission will hold up. A clutch job is roughly 600-800 dollars, which is way cheaper than an auto rebuild. However, I think a good driver can have an auto to last as long as the manual. For safety factor, the auto transmission far exceed the manual. An auto can also be shifted if there is ever a true need. I tried to take my transmission off Over-Drive on mountain path before to save on the brake and utilize the higher rpm from a lower gear. However, I end-up using more gas that way.

So, beside the cave man sense of need to have "driver engagement" is there a reason to have a stick? For the record, my definition of driver engagement is knowing your vehicle well and be able to drive it the most efficiently, not just in fuel consumption for longevity of parts such as brake, engine, transmission, etc.


interesting point of view.
I grew up in an era(late 50s to early 60s)when many cars still had manual tranys and you almost had to learn to drive a manual. Also our farm equipment had manual tranys. We also repaired most of our vehicles ourselves. Therefore I became mechanically inclined at a frarly eary age. So manual tranys are a no brainer for me to use.

That said, both of my current cars are automatics. i wish the BMW was manual. However that was my wife's request. like my older BMW.

One other point. I feel that automatics are frail in all cars. I have had GM, Toyota, and ford automatics fail even with proper care. seldom ever a problem with a manual trany.

Just my experience.