Driving a stick -- interesting but highly obsolete

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
I beg the difference. It is easier to see and judge the road ahead with a automatic because there is no distraction and there is only one pedal to master. This is how some folks like myself can go over 100k without having to change brake pads.

This is laughably absurd. Operating your vehicle is not a "distraction". A driver of a manual transmission car is more engaged, more attuned to what's happening, than an automatic driver. With an automatic a section of your brain gets to check out.

Not sure how anyone could argue that the technology that's less expensive to buy, operate, and maintain, as well as providing the driver with the most direct control of his machine, is "obsolete".

jeff

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
It is one way to eliminate having to worry about whether a transmission will hold up. A clutch job is roughly 600-800 dollars, which is way cheaper than an auto rebuild. However, I think a good driver can have an auto to last as long as the manual.

By the same token, a good driver can make a clutch last as long as an automatic. Depends on the car, the driver, and the circumstances.

An automatic transmission will usually last longer than a clutch. A manual transmission will almost always last longer than an automatic transmission.


Originally Posted By: M1Accord
For safety factor, the auto transmission far exceed the manual.

Depends on the person. If you're chronically uncoordinated or absent-minded, then yes, this is usually true.

For some people, like me, being forced to pay more attention to the car and having a more direct connection (and thus receiving more feedback) promotes awareness of your surroundings and thus safe driving.

For many, it's not about driving stick per se, but what they learn in the process of learning how to drive stick that makes them more aware and more cautious.


Originally Posted By: M1Accord
An auto can also be shifted if there is ever a true need.

...but doesn't give you clutch control, and doesn't always respond immediately and exactly as you intend.


Originally Posted By: M1Accord
For the record, my definition of driver engagement is knowing your vehicle well and be able to drive it the most efficiently, not just in fuel consumption for longevity of parts such as brake, engine, transmission, etc.

You're right to suggest that driving stick is by no means the ONLY way to learn these things. It's just a highly effective shortcut.

However, you should know that this is not what most people mean by driver engagement. Normally, driver engagement/involvement means how attentive and interested the driver is. It has nothing to do with knowledge. In that respect, manuals almost always beat automatics. That's what people are talking about.

 

[KrisZ]

Tell us how many miles have you put on a manual transmission, seems like your opinion is based on what you think manual transmission can or cannot do, rather than having it experience first hand by mastering 3 pedals.

I find the same argument with people putting down the advantages of winter tires. The ones that say they're not needed, never actually drove a car equipped with them, the ones that drove with winter tires never say they don't make a difference.

The difference here is that to appreciate a manual transmission, you have to be really proficient with it, that means driving it for a while to get used to the idea, most people are just too lazy and want instant gratification, so they try it a few times, keep stalling the car, give up and proclaim automatics better.

 

[440Magnum]

All of your "gripes" about a manual transmission pretty much go away with familiarity. Shifting becomes so second-nature that you don't realize you're doing it. Even in city stop-and-go traffic. My daughter (17) picked it up in about 3 months and has never looked back.

That said, the engineer in me prefers conventional planetary gear automatics with a torque convertor. The power flow path through that type of transmission is the simplest (yes, even simpler than a stick with its layshafts and synchronizers- think about it, all the planetaries are on a common shaft line, and direct gear is NO gears meshing at all, just a solid locked shaft), although the control mechanism is obviously more complicated. Planetary gears are stronger and more compact, torque convertors provide torque multiplication at breakaway and then lock at higher speeds- best of both worlds. Dry clutches of any type are positively stone-age. Deliberately grinding un-lubricated surfaces just seems *wrong* when wet multi-plate clutches do the same job with so much slower wear rates.

But to re-iterate, the *driver* in me prefers a stick. Stone-age dry clutch, layshafts, synchronizers, 90-weight oil and everything.

And on the purely personal opinion side- the recent trend to "paddle" shifters is just silly. That's a glorified automatic, not a real manual transmission.

 

[M1Accord]

I have only 2 cars thus far being a 30 yo. Neither give me problem and I learn to take care of them as I mature. I am not a handy at all, just knowing how to change oil and ATF and maybe coolant.

One thing I learn recently about older autobox. For steep driveway, it is better to give a car some gas to get to the highest point of the driveway. Then put it into Neutral and let off the brake to let it coast down about 1-2 feet. Then set the e-brake and shift it into R and P. This will prevent the autobox from jerking and wear out. My Corolla jerked 3 times when we moved into our first house this year and me having to park it outside of the garage.

I am also the guy that put his e-brake on whenever I park, regardless of terrain.

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Tell us how many miles have you put on a manual transmission, seems like your opinion is based on what you think manual transmission can or cannot do, rather than having it experience first hand by mastering 3 pedals.

I find the same argument with people putting down the advantages of winter tires. The ones that say they're not needed, never actually drove a car equipped with them, the ones that drove with winter tires never say they don't make a difference.

The difference here is that to appreciate a manual transmission, you have to be really proficient with it, that means driving it for a while to get used to the idea, most people are just too lazy and want instant gratification, so they try it a few times, keep stalling the car, give up and proclaim automatics better.


I drive a stick now for 3 weeks to work. It is fun but that is about it. I am not arguing about the fun factor, it is the efficiency and safety I am concern about. Part of me feels that the reason kids have higher accident rate is because they drive a stick and can't handle all of distraction of the car and frappa-moche-latte-burger-makeup-cellphone. If they have an auto and just learn to master one pedal, they may have less accident. Just a thought.

Back when I got my license, I got it with a stick. Then I went with an auto as a first car and never look back. I am picking up stick driving now after 15 mins lesson and 2 stalls. But a driver and engineer in me says auto is a much better option.

 

[Old Mustang Guy]

I've always liked a manual but I got my last Mustang with auto so my wife could enjoy it also if we went on a road trip. The new autos are so good that any performance advantage is about gone with a manual. I noticed a test of the 2011 Mustang GT that showed performance equal with auto or manual. That being said, I would still like to have a manual car. I love the new Kia Soul and would like to get one as a third car. When I walked through the lot they had a good selection but none with manual. I think auto will now give better resale because so many people will not even consider a manual.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
I am not arguing about the fun factor, it is the efficiency and safety I am concern about. Part of me feels that the reason kids have higher accident rate is because they drive a stick and can't handle all of distraction of the car and frappa-moche-latte-burger-makeup-cellphone. If they have an auto and just learn to master one pedal, they may have less accident. Just a thought.

You've got these backwards. Sticks are typically more efficient than autos (any fuel saving trick one could employ in an automatic has a corollary when driving stick) and require the driver to pay more attention. By forcing the driver to pay attention to vehicle speed, engine speed, gear, the action of adjusting those things, and looking ahead to anticipate what's required next, there's less brainpower "free" to distraction.

And yes it is more fun

jeff

 

[mpvue]

the OP's assertions are so ignorant and simplistic I won't even specifically address them.
I drive stick by choice, have for the last 20 years or so. I don't like how modern autos are programmed. I don't like it deciding when it should downshift. I don't appreciate the delay. and there is too much complication between the engine and the wheels.
contrary to popular beleif, the human brain can deal w/ processing more than one thing at a time, so I don't get the problem w/ 'mastering' three pedals.
I've had passengers in the car that didn't even realize I was driving a stick (of course, they also don't believe a car like mine has a stick)because its so smooth.

so anyway, if someone needs to explain to you why a stick car is superior or preferred by some, well, then there's really no point in arguing. you just won't understand.

 

[bigmike]

When I learned to drive a stick, I was about 17. I learned to not have any distractions, as I needed both hands and feet to drive.

I have vehicles with A/T now.. I miss driving a manual. My wife refuses to even consider it, so I abandoned the idea.

 

[Jimmy9190]

My truck has a 5 speed manual. So did my last 2 trucks before it. I won't own an automatic if I can help it. An automatic just seems unnatural to me. I learned to drive a stick in an old Datsun 510 and since then I have always preferred a manual.

 

[Boatowner]

I have been driving manuals since 1970 when I learned to drive. My father would not let us drive solo until we mastered starting his 65 Dodge Dart 170 CID three on the tree on the steep hill of our street. People got used to seeing us learn that hill one at a time as we began to learn to drive.

Now it is so automatic to me I actually have to think a moment to put myself in the automatic mode to drive my wife's Odyssey. Shifting is so automatic I can be in 5th gear without even thinking about it and have to look at the speed and tach to realize I am in top gear and don't need to shift again.

The manual driver is more likely to be in touch with his or her car. You feel the car and hear and shift up or down as needed without thought and certainly without being distracted. My car talks to me and I listen. When something is wrong I can hear and feel it. That just plain isn't as easy with an auto.

Also, any stick driver knows your left foot is for the clutch only, not for the brake. How many auto drivers wear out their brakes because they drive with their left foot on the brake? It took me a while to break my wife of that bad habit, but since she had to learn driving a stick, she had no choice.

 

[Cutehumor]

anyone have any stats about how many cars sold in the U.S that are automatics and what percent are manual trans?

 

[Jeepster_nut]

I use to LOVE manuals. All my cars were manual. I got into my mid 30's and it lost its luster. Shifting is simply more work and more effort. After dealing with long hours at work all day and then heading home and hitting traffic, I much rather be sitting in my "slushbox" listening to XM relaxing.
Gauging the distance between cars in traffic in a manual vehicle and trying to determine the correct distance to keep so I can creep along in 1st gear without having the car start bucking as I slow down has gotten old.

There are still those who choose to wash their clothes by hand vs. using a clothes washing machine, perk their coffee vs using instant brewers, and open their garage doors manually vs. using an electric garage door opener. Its a matter of taste.

I do see the day coming when the manual transmission goes the way of the "3 on the tree" shifter, in mainstream, more common autos anyway...

 

[Jimmy9190]

Seems I read an article somewhere (on Yahoo maybe) not long ago saying how the manual transmission is almost extinct in new cars. IIRC it said only about 3% of all new cars and trucks being built nowadays are equipped with a manual.

 

[BobFout]

 

[subiedriver]

I like being in control = 5 speed manual. I will agree however, that manual's are a PIA in city traffic. I'll always be a 5 speed guy, I'd much rather replace a clutch, than a tranny.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
After dealing with long hours at work all day and then heading home and hitting traffic, I much rather be sitting in my "slushbox" listening to XM relaxing.


I guess I am the direct opposite of you. I love heading home in my truck, moving through the gears and listening to my engine after I have been chained to my desk and telephone for 8 hours. Eventually after a few miles I do turn up the radio or Ipod though.

 

[VNTS]

I prefer sticks, currently have 6 car with sticks and 2 SUV's autos.

Sticks are more fun and far easier to maitain.

I would only want an auto if I was very old or lived in the city.

Other than High performance cars, you dont have much choice anymore and are stuck with a slushbox.

My next purchase will have a stick with V8 power in a Challenger.
I am so glad they offer it in a stick.

 

[Chris142]

I refuse to own an Automatic. I've had too many expensive problems with them in the past and even after being rebuilt they were never quite "right".

I've never worn a clutch out in anything I drove or owned. Part of that is the cars that I had or have can take off from a dead stop by only letting the clutch out...No throttle needed. No throttle = Less slippage and wear.

Once rolling I never use the clutch to upshift or downshift.