Driving a stick -- interesting but highly obsolete

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: SubyRoo
It is my opinion that a real "drivers car" is a manual and an automatic is for someone who would rather drive a couch with wheels.

Now that is funny!

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I can't even tell what he's describing.

I think he means when you park on a slope and put the car in "P", then let off the brake, and the car rolls back. This loads up the engine mounts through the transmission.


I would NEVER have gotten there from "give it gas to the crest of the hill then shift to neutral... etc. so it wont jerk." Its equally valid to drive over the hill, stop with the service brake, set the parking brake, and then shift to park. No load on the parking pawl that way. I've always been a pretty obsessive user of the parking brake in ALL vehicles, not just sticks. I don't trust parking pawls. I also once came upon a guy trying to change a flat front tire on an Accord in the rain in my neighbor's driveway. I say "trying" because he was on a slight hill, had parked the car in "P" (not applying the parking brake), loosened all the lug nuts, then jacked up the front wheel and removed the tire. Of course you know what happened... the wheel in the air started spinning backward and the car rolled right off the jack and flat onto the brake rotor. I had to go get my floor jack to squeeze under the chassis to lift the car off the concrete. AFTER telling him to set the parking brake this time.... :-/

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I tried to learn on an integra, and it was really tough. I bought a BMW and it clicked instantly. There is a difference in drivability of different designs and how good they are. An integra, IMO is a poor design.

A well designed MT is a breeze to drive in traffic, city, etc. A lousy one is a pain.

The lack of MT allows the driver to turn the brain off, ignore physics, and waste fuel. More people should drive MT.

Many manufacturers pick lousy gear ratios in the interest of feeling "sporty". An MT is lighter, simpler, and at least until recently, offered more gear options which gave better performance across a wide operating range. Modern 6+ speed ATs are bound to be far more expensive to repair than the older 3-5 speed variants due to the same or less space with more parts.


OP here. I agree with a lot of points you make here. My Accord has the lousy gear ratio to make it sporty. That is why it is lousy with gas mileage. The stick car I am driving is an Integra. The stick is not that smooth and this has been the problem when I got my license with it back 95 and now. It is the design that requires a some force to throw it in 1st or 2nd. The clutch position is also odd for me.

I drove an MR2 once in college because my buddy had too much to drink. It wasn't bad and the clutch position felt much better. On the older Integra, it is too close to the brake and at a weird angle for me. I like the stick design on the Euro exotics where there is an actual gate/grid pattern to make thing easier.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: SubyRoo
Its all I will ever have unless I get to a point where I cant drive one. I just cant understand why someone would view it as a distraction unless they arent experienced with a manual.

I'm the same way, and thankfully so is my wife.

Another argument I don't understand is the traffic one. If traffic is ever bad enough that driving a stick is a nuisance, why drive at all? If you live somewhere where you have to commute through stop-and-go traffic every day to get to work, and there's no feasible public transportation, why are you still living there? Either scenario is a waste of time, money, and effort, not to mention that it worsens the traffic problem in the first place.

I'm sure there are some people who simply can't take public transportation or move to avoid constantly driving in traffic, but I sincerely doubt they constitute a majority of the people who choose automatics over manuals.

 

[Jeepster_nut]

And with an automatic any driver can creep along and not have any bucking lol

 

[Kestas]

I sense a little smug factor from stick-shift drivers to some of the replies.

I can understand where M1Accord (who lives in DC) is coming from with his statements. I lived in the SF Bay Area for a short while with my stick shift Omni. It can really wear on a person to negotiate heavy rush hour traffic with a stick, especially when your drained and hungry after a hard day at work. Not so bad in metro Detroit though.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If you live somewhere where you have to commute through stop-and-go traffic every day to get to work, and there's no feasible public transportation, why are you still living there?


Because you love your job, love your home, love the community, and don't want to move to some urban concrete jungle cesspit with good public transit but where you're stuck in an anthill of condos with no yard, no fresh air, no sky, and no life?

It takes me half an hour to 40 minutes to get home in heavy traffic. If 20 minutes of it is creeping in stop-and-go traffic, so what? Its a small price to pay. And driving it in the stick shift doesn't bother me either.

 

[Jeepster_nut]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
I sense a little smug factor from stick-shift drivers to some of the replies.

I don't see what they are being smug about, I mean really, its a stick shift. Its not like they are flying a plane or other machine that takes real skill to perform.

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
I refuse to own an Automatic. I've had too many expensive problems with them in the past and even after being rebuilt they were never quite "right".

I've never worn a clutch out in anything I drove or owned. Part of that is the cars that I had or have can take off from a dead stop by only letting the clutch out...No throttle needed. No throttle = Less slippage and wear.

Once rolling I never use the clutch to upshift or downshift.


You never use a clutch to shift? That is odd bro. I am not sure it's possible with the Integra I am driving. It's the pain in the rear to get to second or first or R with it due to the angle. All other gears are fine.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Because you love your job, love your home, love the community, and don't want to move to some urban concrete jungle cesspit with good public transit but where you're stuck in an anthill of condos with no yard, no fresh air, no sky, and no life?

One of my best friends checks all those boxes. When he goes to work in the morning, he drives his car... to the nearest train station.

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
It takes me half an hour to 40 minutes to get home in heavy traffic. If 20 minutes of it is creeping in stop-and-go traffic, so what? Its a small price to pay. And driving it in the stick shift doesn't bother me either.

I tend to agree.

I was really only talking about the people who use traffic as a reason to get an automatic over a manual.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
You never use a clutch to shift? That is odd bro. I am not sure it's possible with the Integra I am driving. It's the pain in the rear to get to second or first or R with it due to the angle. All other gears are fine.

You can do it in any car. It's just more or less difficult with different cars (and usually involves a lot of abuse on the transmission to learn).

 

[rpn453]

I'll add that, when cornering at the limit, you really don't want the transmission to shift without your input and upset the balance. Few conventional automatics, even those with 'manumatic' control, allow you to hold a gear in all situations.

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
I sense a little smug factor from stick-shift drivers to some of the replies.

I can understand where M1Accord (who lives in DC) is coming from with his statements. I lived in the SF Bay Area for a short while with my stick shift Omni. It can really wear on a person to negotiate heavy rush hour traffic with a stick, especially when your drained and hungry after a hard day at work. Not so bad in metro Detroit though.


I think people associating anyone driving an auto by choice as a non-car folks that can't drive. The ability to drive and intimacy with a car have nothing to do with the transmission. F1 drivers don't use a stick. Most racing 'manual' transmission are also not the same as those found in regular cars.

The people in 3rd world drive a stick because that's all they could afford. They get the stuffs other countries throw away. UN and embassy vehicles are auto because they could afford to.
And I do agree that off-roading, specifically rock climbing, is much better with auto. A manual would be worn out very soon doing the tricks required.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
F1 drivers don't use a stick.

Stalling a street car isn't a big deal. Stalling an F1 car could lunch the engine on the spot.

Missing a shift in a street car is an "oops." Missing a shift in an F1 car is likely to break something and could very easily throw you face-first into a wall.

Driving with one hand on the wheel in a street car is rarely a problem. Driving with one hand on the wheel in an F1 car could be a severe limitation.

Taking more than 0.1 seconds to shift a street car is no problem whatsoever. In an F1 car, over the course of a race, that could mean the difference between coming in first and not even making the podium.

When you're in a ~1300 lb car that pulls 3-5g in a corner or braking zone and has a >$200,000 engine turning 18,000 RPM and chucking out well over 700 hp, the LAST thing you want to worry about is working the clutch, taking your hand off the wheel, or spending a significant amount of time between gears.

Besides, the point of a race car is not to be fun or involving for the driver. The point of a race car is to turn fast laps, period. Semi-autos serve that goal better and decrease the chance that something will break, so that's what they use.


Originally Posted By: M1Accord
The people in 3rd world drive a stick because that's all they could afford. They get the stuffs other countries throw away. UN and embassy vehicles are auto because they could afford to.

True.

And what about Europe?

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
F1 drivers don't use a stick. Most racing 'manual' transmission are also not the same as those found in regular cars.


A sequential automated manual is faster than a manual transmission. Functionally, these have more in common with a traditional manual than a traditional automatic.

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
And I do agree that off-roading, specifically rock climbing, is much better with auto. A manual would be worn out very soon doing the tricks required.


This would be news to the guys I've known who like off-roading.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
And what about Europe?

The large majority of new cars in Europe are still manual transmission.

 

[fdcg27]

Wow.
You have stirred up a hornets nest here.
I'll add this:
Three out of four of our current daily drivers are sticks.
I drive a stick to work every day.
My wife owned a stick when I met her, and still drives one well.
Both of my sons are pretty good, and have become "stick snobs".
Crawling traffic is no problem.
Just select first or second, and roll in and out of the throttle, never touching brakes or clutch.
Usually works just fine.
A stick is fun to drive, and at least a little challenging.
This is how cars were meant to be.
In Europe, automatics are widely regarded as invalids' cars.

 

[Spazdog]

My current car was selected with a "manu-matic". I was thinking that this would satiate my need to select my own ratios while minimizing my frustration in bumper to bumper traffic.

I was only partially right.

I tried the manu-matic. I don't like it.

You either get the "man and machine" connection a manual transmission provides or you don't. Maybe we're enlightened. Maybe we're like you said "cavemen" But other people's inability to do what we do well should not prevent us from having three pedals and rowing through the gears.

I don't care if technology does it faster and better. There are probably plenty of technologically advanced ways of getting fish out of the water but something satisfying about just casting out with a relatively simple machine and landing one yourself. Same thing with our transmissions.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
I sense a little smug factor from stick-shift drivers to some of the replies.


I think the responses are pretty much what you'd expect when someone who just started learning to operate a manual transmission decides to tell experienced drivers that automatics are better than manuals in every way!

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
I don't see what they are being smug about, I mean really, its a stick shift. Its not like they are flying a plane or other machine that takes real skill to perform.


Driving on public roads at reasonable speeds doesn't require much skill. It mostly requires discipline and awareness. However, I hope you're not suggesting that simply operating an airplane requires anywhere near the skill level of a professional race car driver!