Driving a stick -- interesting but highly obsolete

[Jeepster_nut]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Seems I read an article somewhere (on Yahoo maybe) not long ago saying how the manual transmission is almost extinct in new cars. IIRC it said only about 3% of all new cars and trucks being built nowadays are equipped with a manual.



I believe it. Automation plays a huge role in technological progress in every aspect of our lives. Look at other areas of automobile design where automation has taken over. Power windows, power locks, automatic climate control, auto radio tuning, auto headlights, auto wipers, the list goes on and on.

Car manufacturers follow market push- offer up something and if its well received, keep supplying it. Thats where I think manuals will see their end days. Unless consumers suddenly stop buying automobiles because they have become too convenient, and desire manual accessories and manual shifting.

Its a sad trend in society I suppose. Everything being dumbed down for the masses.

 

[AuthorEditor]

When I took my driving test you had to use a manual and the test guys loved to find the trickiest places to make you stop on a hill or parallel park reversing up a hill into a tight spot or doing the three-point turn in a narrow spot. They've subsequently closed off one of their favorite streets (too dangerous I bet) which was so steep when you were stopped at the sign you couldn't see ahead over the hood which was pointed towards the sky. The accepted procedure was to use the parking brake to keep from rolling backwards. Great fun!

 

[Jeepster_nut]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
After dealing with long hours at work all day and then heading home and hitting traffic, I much rather be sitting in my "slushbox" listening to XM relaxing.


I guess I am the direct opposite of you. I love heading home in my truck, moving through the gears and listening to my engine after I have been chained to my desk and telephone for 8 hours. Eventually after a few miles I do turn up the radio or Ipod though.


This is totally subjective based on your commute and traffic you encounter. If I didn't have to sit in traffic 4 out of 5 days, and had open roads, then sure, I wouldn't mind a 5 speed at all.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Seems I read an article somewhere (on Yahoo maybe) not long ago saying how the manual transmission is almost extinct in new cars. IIRC it said only about 3% of all new cars and trucks being built nowadays are equipped with a manual.


This is only North American trend, the rest of the world still prefers manual.

However, I think that with rising gas prices and smaller cars being introduced, I think manual transmission may make its comeback. I think part of the reason why Americans prefer auto transmission is the fact that we have big engines here with plenty of torque, automatic transmission doesn't suck out the power that much. Compare that with Europe and Asia, where they have small 1.0L to 1.5L engines and you can see that a regular slushbox simply doesn’t make sense, the power and fuel economy hit is just too great.

 

[Jeepster_nut]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Seems I read an article somewhere (on Yahoo maybe) not long ago saying how the manual transmission is almost extinct in new cars. IIRC it said only about 3% of all new cars and trucks being built nowadays are equipped with a manual.


This is only North American trend, the rest of the world still prefers manual.

However, I think that with rising gas prices and smaller cars being introduced, I think manual transmission may make its comeback. I think part of the reason why Americans prefer auto transmission is the fact that we have big engines here with plenty of torque, automatic transmission doesn't suck out the power that much. Compare that with Europe and Asia, where they have small 1.0L to 1.5L engines and you can see that a regular slushbox simply doesn’t make sense, the power and fuel economy hit is just too great.


Im not sure about the small car segment turning back towards manuals though. I was looking at several compacts recently as a 3rd car, and it seemed that they mostly were using CVT's. The CVT is something I couldn't drive, sorry. I wouldn't even call it an automatic. I would call the CVT a gearless, even though they are infinitely geared, there just isnt that shifting feel you get with an auto or manual for that matter.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
I can creep along in 1st gear without having the car start bucking as I slow down has gotten old.


I can creep along in 1st gear without having the car start bucking as it slows down.

 

[mechtech2]

I do not agree that 80% of most people's driving is on the highway! Not at all.

Automatics are getting better in design. [Strength and quality are another issue.] they can be fun to drive and offer high performance with multiple gears.
So I have no axe to grind.

A lousy stick is not fun, but a properly adjusted clutch with a good tranny and shifter is a pleasure.
It's a skill.
It's a musical instrument.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord

One thing I learn recently about older autobox. For steep driveway, it is better to give a car some gas to get to the highest point of the driveway. Then put it into Neutral and let off the brake to let it coast down about 1-2 feet. Then set the e-brake and shift it into R and P. This will prevent the autobox from jerking and wear out.



That's ridiculous. There must have been some mechanical problem to cause "jerking."

 

[SteveSRT8]

I can't even tell what he's describing.

 

[Kestas]

Here's a bit of trivia. The Humvees in our military are all automatic, for two reasons:

- most of the recruits coming into the military have never driven a stick shift.
- the military doesn't want stick shift-inexperienced soldiers grinding gears in a combat (panic) situation, and wants to keep them alive.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Here's a bit of trivia. The Humvees in our military are all automatic, for two reasons:

- most of the recruits coming into the military have never driven a stick shift.
- the military doesn't want stick shift-inexperienced soldiers grinding gears in a combat (panic) situation, and wants to keep them alive.


Not to mention that an automatic is really, honestly, quantifiably BETTER for offroading in every possible way. Yes, I own a stick-shift Jeep and prefer it over my automatic Jeep... but I have seen with my own eyes that when you really get to the limits of the vehicle's ability, automatics can simply do things offroad that would destroy the clutch on a manual or the manual simply couldn't do. Not so much mud/slippery offroading, but very aggressive rock-crawling. The torque multiplication, and the ability to drag the brake while just *inching* along and carefully modulating power (actually torque) with the gas pedal is a huge advantage. In this case, you really do have more precise, fine control over the vehicle with an automatic than with a stick. But that's very different situation from autocross or mountain road driving where the stick affords better control. In the offroad case, you're modulating torque within one gear ratio, not predictively picking the best ratio for the next hill or turn.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I can't even tell what he's describing.

I think he means when you park on a slope and put the car in "P", then let off the brake, and the car rolls back. This loads up the engine mounts through the transmission. Then when you start the car you have to yank the shifter from "P" it makes a bit of a jerk and a mechanically unpleasant noise as the parking pawl is yanked out under load...
My Peon gets parked on a slope so I put it in N, set the parking brake and then put it in P and shut the car off.

Yet another reason manual transmissions are good/better!

 

[Steve S]

I would say that people these days lack the ability to work a stick shift.

 

[JHZR2]

I tried to learn on an integra, and it was really tough. I bought a BMW and it clicked instantly. There is a difference in drivability of different designs and how good they are. An integra, IMO is a poor design.

A well designed MT is a breeze to drive in traffic, city, etc. A lousy one is a pain.

The lack of MT allows the driver to turn the brain off, ignore physics, and waste fuel. More people should drive MT.

Many manufacturers pick lousy gear ratios in the interest of feeling "sporty". An MT is lighter, simpler, and at least until recently, offered more gear options which gave better performance across a wide operating range. Modern 6+ speed ATs are bound to be far more expensive to repair than the older 3-5 speed variants due to the same or less space with more parts.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
I can creep along in 1st gear without having the car start bucking as I slow down has gotten old.


I can creep along in 1st gear without having the car start bucking as it slows down.



I know, me too. Depending upon the car, I can creep in 2nd gear without bucking, if the terrain is right.

 

[cp3]

+1 Indy........that's about all I could come up with. Unless it actually has slipped off of the parking pin and rolled back?

In my Saturn I could creep in any gear, did it freqently in 3rd and 4th when in traffic, just let it idle along.

I bought the G5 with an auto so the wife could drive it too. She doesn't really like the car so she doesn't take it. It was nice when I had the Saturn to drive the G6 with the auto but I knew that I would miss the stick eventually. If I had my time back again, probably would have the 5-speed and whatever comes next probably will too!

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
I am not arguing about the fun factor, it is the efficiency and safety I am concern about. Part of me feels that the reason kids have higher accident rate is because they drive a stick and can't handle all of distraction of the car and frappa-moche-latte-burger-makeup-cellphone. If they have an auto and just learn to master one pedal, they may have less accident. Just a thought.

Two points in response:

1. If kids are crashing because they can't multitask with a frappa-mocha-latte-burger-makeup-cell phone, the problem is not the car. They shouldn't be driving at all.

2. Manual transmissions PREVENT people from having their frappa-mocha-latte-burger-makeup-cell phones while driving.

The only time an automatic will be less safe than a manual is when someone is chronically un-coordinated or has some kind of issue with their limbs. That's not most people.

 

[SubyRoo]

I learned to drive on a manual and have had 5 cars since that time and they have all had a manual transmission. Its all I will ever have unless I get to a point where I cant drive one. I just cant understand why someone would view it as a distraction unless they arent experienced with a manual. I taught my girlfriend how to drive a manual and she hated it for about a week but now she wouldnt have anything else. It is my opinion that a real "drivers car" is a manual and an automatic is for someone who would rather drive a couch with wheels.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: stranger706
Your perspective is typical of someone that is learning to drive stick. Your attitude will change as you become more experienced.

Mine did. I count the days until I can get another manual.

Your perspective also changes when you get older and have back problems, and don't need to be pushing a clutch pedal all day long, and you consider driving as something that has to be done - to get from point a to point b. Not a real life video game!

I spent the first 30 or 40 years of my driving days driving a stick. Right now, all my vehicles are automatic. I really don't miss the stick shift!
As was mentioned if I see a long hill coming and want to downshift, I simply move the little lever on my right.
Plus with lock up converters and multi speed automatics, I don't think there is much difference in MPG between an automatic and a stick shift (assuming it's the same car with the same engine).

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
On twisty hilly roads where a manual supposes to shine, I can see the advantage as far as lower fuel consumption and 'perceived' sporty feeling. However, I think people would do better if they just keep both hand on the steering wheel and concentrate on making that turn perfectly using their gas pedal.


The shift happens before turn-in, during braking (trail braking is not recommended on public roads). Yes, you do steer with the throttle when driving at the limit. That is one reason why you don't want a slushy torque converter in the driveline.

I think you'll realize the benefits and joys of a manual transmission once you actually know how to drive one. It takes a while to get really good at it, and many never do. Operating a manual requires little brainpower; it requires no thought and very little time to perform even a double-clutch heel-toe downshift once you're used to it.