Drivetrain Vibration at 60 mph

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Okay, some of you may recall my long time search for the whining noise I was having in my LS430. Thank God it was finally solved! Little rubber gasket was shredded where the rod going from my gear selector to the transmission link. Years of searching and finally solved! Quiet as a mouse just like I expected.

Anyways, let me catch you all up to speed. In this process of diagnosing my whirring, my former mechanic and still friend said he thought it was my carrier bearing on the driveshaft. I did a little searching online and that seemed to be a possibility. I went to my Lexus PM, who has always treated me great, and purchased the center carrier bearing. I had read online to make sure you mark a driveshaft before removing as they are balanced and need to go back on the same way. My former mechanic told me you didn't have to mark driveshafts and got it installed but the whining was still there. But at that time I was now getting a pretty bad vibration. Talked with my Lexus friends and they said to replace transmission mount as that was most likely causing the problem (note, the Lexus mechanic had not seen the car and was merely noting the transmission mount was a fairly common problem). What the heck? I went and got a Lexus transmission mount and had my former mechanic install it. No change.

So at this point in time I still have a whirring car with some kind of sporadic vibration that was getting worse. It would come in bad around 60 mph. My former mechanic kept it for about a month and finally gave up. He's a good guy and wouldn't take any money but I made him take some.

I noticed the car would be smooth as glass and then all of a sudden the vibration would get so bad it scared me. The rear view mirror was a blur. Interstates where 80 mph was the norm speed was scary with the vibration being so bad.

Talked with my Lexus mechanic and he accepted the challenge. He said he would fix all the problems. He found the little rubber boot/gasket in 2 days. Checked windshield and grommets all around the front firewall and underneath finally and found the gasket. That problem solved.

Now moving on to the vibration. Tires rebalanced, wheel bearings checked, diff fluid changed. He then pinpointed that I did not get this vibration until AFTER the carrier bearing the transmission mount were replaced. Only started at 60 mph and when I would slow down on the off ramps it would go away. So definitely speed related. He messed around with different size shims at the carrier bearing and found different thicknesses of shims would move the vibration from 60 mph to 70 mph. This seems like important information.

I called my former mechanic to update him with what was going on as he had asked me to. I told him about the whirring noise being fixed but said we were still struggling with the vibration. He now assured me he had marked the driveshaft but that we should check
the carrier bearing as he had one heckofa time getting it pressed on the driveshaft. Matter of fact he had to take it to another shop and get a "bigger" press to get the carrier bearing on and he said he may have damaged it.

Hmmm...if you wait long enough the truth will come out.

So we take off the driveshaft, get a new carrier bearing and take it to a driveshaft shop. They cannot balance it as the nearest city that can balance Toyota driveshafts is in Charlotte, NC. But he said he could solve most driveshaft issues by sight. He would check
the "phase" and put on the new center bearing for $25. Wow! As I laid the driveshaft down he saw it was out of phase and found the faded marks from the factory. He had to destroy the center bearing to get it off the shaft. So now I have a phased driveshaft with
a new center carrier bearing. Lexus mechanic told me when he removed the bolts holding the carrier bearing that there were no shims and that it is possible that there were no shims to begin with but it there were no shims it would be the first Lexus he had ever
seen without shims.

Lexus mechanic told me he was not satisfied with where we are now as I have a slight vibration and low rumble at 60 mph that is magnified under load. Will ease up a little when I take foot off accelerator. I told him I wanted to drive it home and see what I thought.
He suggested I come down one evening and we would experiment with changing out the sims. He doesn't think it will work but we could try it as he wouldn't charge me any more.

Do any of you have suggestions? Did my former mechanic damage my driveshaft when he had to get a larger press to get the carrier bearing on?

One last piece of info that may only make sense to you Toyota/Lexus people is what the driveshaft guy said. He said the only ringer in this is if the first mechanic removed the driveshaft from the rubber "gasket-boot" things. He said if the did that, the driveshaft would
have to be rebalanced.

My former mechanic has not returned any of my calls and it appears he did mark the driveshaft but the driveshaft shop said it APPEARED whoever marked the driveshaft was trying to cover their butts because of where they marked it.

I know I can buy a driveshaft on eBay and give it a try. What's another hundred or so? Based on this scatter brained ADHD induced 12 gauge with 8 1/2 shot of info, what would be your next step?
 
My parents had a used aprrox 90 model Lincoln Town car which seemed like a nice car if you like the boat ride.

Dad complained about a some whole car vibration at about 60 mph or so.

I think it was finally found to have a faulty torque converter that wasn't filling right, so out of balance.
 
Put in a completely new driveshaft assembly, and make sure that it is shimmed properly so that the front and rear driveshaft angles cancel.
 
If nothing bent. Phasing the drive shaft pieces isn't rocket surgery. Were the U joints replaced? Ever? E 28 driveshafts varied. You could mix and match pieces. The rear was always the same. BMW must have balanced the pieces separately. because as long as the phase was maintained and the U joints were good you were set.
 
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Put in a completely new driveshaft assembly, and make sure that it is shimmed properly so that the front and rear driveshaft angles cancel.


I can't afford a new one. I wish I could.
 
Originally Posted by andyd
If nothing bent. Phasing the drive shaft pieces isn't rocket surgery. Were the U joints replaced? Ever? E 28 driveshafts varied. You could mix and match pieces. The rear was always the same. BMW must have balanced the pieces separately. because as long as the phase was maintained and the U joints were good you were set.


Driveshaft guy said U Joint was fine.
 
So was it solved as you first stated or not?

"Okay, some of you may recall my long time search for the whining noise I was having in my LS430. Thank God it was finally solved! Little rubber gasket was shredded where the rod going from my gear selector to the transmission link. Years of searching and finally solved! Quiet as a mouse just like I expected".
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by PimTac
So was it solved as you first stated or not?

"Okay, some of you may recall my long time search for the whining noise I was having in my LS430. Thank God it was finally solved! Little rubber gasket was shredded where the rod going from my gear selector to the transmission link. Years of searching and finally solved! Quiet as a mouse just like I expected".

+1
I'm confused.

Also agree with andyd above. I'd recommend rebuilding/replacing with a rebuilt unit.
I don't care who built my driveshaft, after so many years/thousands of miles the joints should be replaced.
Any amount of "notchiness"-however slight, is considered a fail.
Most "specialists" never see it this and say they are fine.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
So was it solved as you first stated or not?

"Okay, some of you may recall my long time search for the whining noise I was having in my LS430. Thank God it was finally solved! Little rubber gasket was shredded where the rod going from my gear selector to the transmission link. Years of searching and finally solved! Quiet as a mouse just like I expected".



My initial problem was solved. The whirring/whining was solved with the little rubber boot.

In the process of attempting to solve my initial problem, I developed this second problem which I think centers around my driveshaft. It is a vibration issue. I gave all the info surrounding what was done hoping that would help diagnose what has caused this vibration/low rumbling at 60 mph. It concerned me when the former mechanic had to get a larger press to get the center carrier bearing on.
 
Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Originally Posted by PimTac
So was it solved as you first stated or not?

"Okay, some of you may recall my long time search for the whining noise I was having in my LS430. Thank God it was finally solved! Little rubber gasket was shredded where the rod going from my gear selector to the transmission link. Years of searching and finally solved! Quiet as a mouse just like I expected".

+1
I'm confused.

Also agree with andyd above. I'd recommend rebuilding/replacing with a rebuilt unit.
I don't care who built my driveshaft, after so many years/thousands of miles the joints should be replaced.
Any amount of "notchiness"-however slight, is considered a fail.
Most "specialists" never see it this and say they are fine.


I apologize...2 totally separate issues.

The main problem of the whirring noise in the cabin area was solved but in the process of diagnosing, another issue has risen up. A driveline vibration has surfaced. This vibration was never there until the carrier bearing and transmission mount were installed.

2 totally separate issues. The car only has 85k on it.

The driveline shop said the ujoint was fine. We know the driveshaft was out of phase and the driveline shop was able to get it lined back up by finding the old faded factory marks. So, we know my former mechanic
did not put the drive shaft back together properly. It would vibrate so bad at 60 mph it was scary before they got the driveshaft back in phase. Now, the vibration is still there but just enough to irritate you as it happens
at 60 mph. Everything is smooth up to 60 mph.

I'm gonna talk to the driveshaft guy today and see what he says. We may send it to Charlotte to have it balanced. I realize this problem will be hard to solve over the internet but I am thinking someone may have experienced this type
of driveshaft issue before. Maybe my former mechanic bent the driveshaft in his aggressiveness in putting on the center carrier bearing?

I am leaning to finding a used driveshaft but will know more after my call to driveshaft shop this morning.
 
I remember the original thread where guys were saying on these cars the shaft cannot be out of phase, I knew then that was probably the problem and it may be 180 off, you cannot balance a shaft by sight period. Some cars with split shafts must have the shafts balanced individually and then also as an assembled unit.
We went through this one time with a big BMW in the 80's, some beginner did the same thing after doing joints and the car got horrible vibrations, we had it dynamic balanced and all was well.

If you cannot get it dynamic balanced doing it old school with hose clamps to find the spot then tacking a washer on in their place isn't really an option on split shafts. Replace it with a good used one.
 
Thanks for all your input.

It hurts that my former mechanic won't return my calls. I'm gonna have to go see him and get us right. Although, he may be in the hospital or have a new number.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
I remember the original thread where guys were saying on these cars the shaft cannot be out of phase, I knew then that was probably the problem and it may be 180 off, you cannot balance a shaft by sight period. Some cars with split shafts must have the shafts balanced individually and then also as an assembled unit.
We went through this one time with a big BMW in the 80's, some beginner did the same thing after doing joints and the car got horrible vibrations, we had it dynamic balanced and all was well.

If you cannot get it dynamic balanced doing it old school with hose clamps to find the spot then tacking a washer on in their place isn't really an option on split shafts. Replace it with a good used one.



If I can describe this correctly, on each end of the driveshaft there is this big rubber inch think gasket looking thing with 6 sides on it. The driveshaft bolts onto this on both ends and this rubber piece is what bolts to transmission and rear end.

When I laid it on the driveshaft shop table, the 2 ends did not lay flat. One was flat and the other was on a point. That is where the driveshaft guy said right there is your problem. He simply lined up those faint yellow lines by taking driveshaft
apart and spinning it around. If you look closely you can see the faint yellow marks.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


The driveshaft guy is saying it is lined up by the factory marks and I have a new carrier bearing. However, he said if your mechanic removed those rubber gasket things in the process of removing the driveshaft and didn't get them back on in the exact same spot then it will be out of balance.
 
Trav, would you experiment with the shims that space the center carrier bearing down from the body? I have all 5 thicknesses ( 2, 4, 6, 9 and 11) and my Lexus mechanic said to come down one evening and we could swap them out. In your opinion would this just be a futile effort?
 
I'd try a different driveshaft. Carrier bearings on shorter vehicles always seemed foolish to me. Unfortunately, my Subaru has one. I can certainly wait for that to go bad.

With that said, I've had driveline vibration in my Jeep since 2012. I have rebuilt the transfer case, replaced differentials, new driveshafts. I've come to the conclusion that some vehicles just vibrate.
 
Those are common flex joint aka giubo joints and not the source of your problem unless they are torn, weakened or damaged. that being said a worn giubo can cause vibration and if getting really bad thumping and other noises. These are a common point of failure I have seen them go out in as little as 10K with lead footed quick drivers on cars that use these (very common on Euro cars), they should be carefully inspected and replaced if suspect.
Look for worn holes around the metal bushings, cracks, splits and strands of rope (they use rope as a reinforcement media), if you see anything at all questionable replace it.

The giubo can be replaced without rebalancing however mark the flange, giubo and shaft and just duplicate the line you made on the new giubo so you can match the shaft up to the same holes in the flange just as a precaution as in theory a balanced shaft is a balanced shaft in any position, the giubo in good condition will not cause an out of balance condition in of itself unless there is mismatched bolting hardware but that would be very rare and very minor.
It is the shaft itself that is balanced.
Honestly without a driveshaft outfit that can do this job for you (it is not a question at this point of the mechanics skill as much as it is a having the equipment and know how to get it right) you are dancing in the dark. Sure try a few things with shims and replace the joints but I wouldn't invest too much time into this as it is now.
 
ok, gotcha.

Just talked with driveshaft guy and he said to start with the smallest shim and go up in thickness. If none of the shims fix it we will have to go to Charlotte and have it balanced.
 
2 freaken giubos? Man, Gebo you been holding back vital info. Those couplings fit only one correct way.This is why when you take unfamiliar stuff apart, you leave a few match marks with a marker. Think Hansel's trail of bead crumbs

Trav, how did you deal with BMW's staked U joints ? I bought a shade tree rebuilt from Al Taylor, an old school BMW campaigner, The rebuilder ground out the stakes and used plain old 1/4 wrought washers tacked in 180' apart. I had tried and failed but I learned enough to discover the washers. The washers are used to set the U-joint's depth in the yoke too. I put the 100k miles on the Borman6 using that shaft.
Professionally rebuilt drive shafts ground the stakes off and then milled in grooves for snap rings like a normal DS
grin2.gif
 
LOL. I thought I gave you too much info. We don't know if my former mechanic took these "GLUBOS" off or not. That is why I am calling him. And that may be why he is not returning my calls. It doesn't look like any of the bolts holding on the glubos have been
removed.

We also don't know if my former mechanic removed any shims to begin with when he pressed on the first center bearing???

As you can see, there are a whole lotta "Don't knows." I'm am starting to have flashbacks of Hogan's Hero's when Col Klink says, "I know nothing."
 
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